Men approaching my DD17 at the library- is this really the state of the UK?

[PinkChaires]

Today my dd went to the library to do some revision, and she says that whilst she was using a computer, a man in his fifties came and scooted his chair very close to her and repeatedly asked for her name. She immediately got up but then the man said ‘its alright’ and went away himself. A completely different man of about the same age came not 15 minutes later whilst she was packing up and asked her where are you going. She says he was actually licking his lips. Is this really how its become? Weve been going to this library since she was tiny and shes been going regularly by herself for the past 2 years with no issues like this.

It has been like that all over the world always...the UK tried their best to tighten the law around these matters but unfortunately the moral climate is going back to rotten, even the law cannot scare the perv away anymore

I used to use my local library quite a lot to work in, but have noticed over the last few years there are some really seedy men that hang around there. It seemed to coincide with Covid and with the council getting rid of virtually all library staff and just using volunteers. Not that the volunteers aren't great, but there used to be a much firmer grip on who was there. I think it was recommended that libraries were used as public spaces for people who wanted to keep warm etc and it's been abused. I'm sorry about your daughter - she has every right to peaceful use of a library.

This is why you see Andrew cannot believe the UK and everyone is so off put by what he was found to have done....men thought that young girls are just women - females and could be taken sexually without any repercussions - which happens in countries where there is not strict law system around age consent, etc

It's not 'the state of the UK', it's the state of men and it's a tale as old as time. It was a problem when we were teens, when our mums were teens, when our nans were teens...

The last time I used the library was when I was a teen myself, but I walk past one regularly. My perception from who I’ve seen going in there is that it’s people who just want to pass the time (not working), use the internet and just stay sheltered. So that behaviour you’re describing just doesn’t surprise me.

That is awful but there is a growing climate of seedy, pervy men which makes it difficult being a female in certain public places. There’s a lot of places I avoid now. I got to a gym where there is a female only section, don’t use underpasses and avoid certain areas/ places where I know may encounter this.

I was quite shocked when she said it was in the library. If it was in the city centre i wouldnt have been. Maybe ive been naive , in the centre its very busy so it doesnt happen as much ime. She said she was in a bit of a secluded area, so ill told her to go to the busier areas with people who are her age around (

All she needs to do if it happens again is for her to shout "GET AWAY FROM ME YOU PERVERT" at the top of her voice.

Libraries often attract lonely people. It's a warm place to sit if they have unstable housing and live alone. So unfortunately it's openness to all the community can mean you get some odd folks trying to talk to people.

I guess you could say they might be vulnerable and harmless but it's still unpleasant to deal with.

I think next time ill pop in with her under the guise of taking younger DC to see whos there. Last time i went it actually seemed to be a lot of GCSE/ A level students about in june time

My 14 year old daughter looks older as she is tall, and mature. She gets harassed on public transport a bit too much for my liking, and in cafes. Men have said stuff to her that she doesn't even understand the slang meanings of, and just repeated it to me (much to my horror). Grown men have made comments in front of me. I have roared back as I find it utterly disgusting and think they need to be called out loudly in public places for acting this way. Porn addicted losers who have forgotten their age, and just acting like creeps in public spaces. I suggest you have a word with the library manager as they can look into their safeguarding systems. Lots of young people use the library to study or follow hobbies, and it should be a safe space. It doesn't get better with age, sadly. I still get hassled by men in my mid-fifties when I thought I would be well past that sort of predatory behaviour.

Exactly this. I had this as a teen. I’m frighteningly close to 60 now

Oh bore off and crowbar Andrew into some other thread.

Yep, this is what men are like - but probably bolder now due to the ease of accessing on-line porn, Only Fans and the like. Men are now watching porn on the bus and even the House of Commons, because what was once hidden is now coming out into the open with very little pushback.

Men have always been arrogant and entitled - and think it’s their right to hit on anyone.

I would go and support her to report it to the library staff, as it is a safeguarding issue.

I don't think this is anything new.

When I was a student in the 1970s I can still vividly remember sitting studying at a table in the reference library in the city centre. And an oldish, rather down and out looking guy sat down at the table with a book and he exposed himself to me. I was so shocked I didn't even think to tell any one. I just packed up my books and rushed home.

My local library was put forward for an extended hours stafless model. So when it was unstaffed, people could just let themselves in with a card. The librarians pointed out that the people most likely to let themselves in and hang around were creepy men. They knew this because of dealing with creepy, hanging around men during staffed hours. It went ahead and to no surprise to anyone, except the senior managers who didn’t ever work in libraries, the extra unstaffed hours were a disaster. Just creepy men hanging around putting off anyone else wanted to visit.

I’m so sorry your daughter was subjected to this.

As a former member of library staff, I second this, absolutely.

This is not a new thing. The difference now is mum’s actually believe their daughters.

Or, that the teens tell their mums.
I wouldn't have told my mum half of the stuff that happened to me, not because she wouldn't believe me but because I wouldn't have been allowed out.

I could have written this myself @WatchingTheDetective .
Our library was a wonderful place to bring my DCs for story hour and to choose books as they got older.
My DM walked the short distance there and spent many hours comfortably reading, when she retired.
Come covid and the spiraling down changes, and it's so bad there now, that they've erected steel fencing at the front to keep people away at night.
I stopped going there a few years ago, there were always men who didn't mind being vocal, hanging around the somewhat isolated entrance off the lot.
I'm sorry that this has been the experience of your DD, OP, my own DD felt so unsafe and vulnerable to harassment that she won't go back, and I'm only glad that my DM didn't live to see this.

I work in a library and I'm really vigilant to this happening, especially around exam revision time.

Sadly a lot of girls are very polite and put up with a lot from them. I will very loudly ask them to leave the girls alone or give the girls an excuse to move. I'm working on getting the culprits banned, but it takes time and requires a few incident reports. I now get very nasty "anonymous" notes from one of the men I have regularly called out, worth it to keep his attention elsewhere.

Libraries have always attracted
-Harmless people looking for somewhere warm to hang out

• Harmless lonely people
• creepy men

Note when I say lonely people I do NOT mean it's your DDs responsibility to chat to them even if they are harmless. The men she met fell into the third category but even the first 2 categories shouldn't be the concern of a 17 year old. She should tell the library staff if she feels confident or you should mention it. Libraries are public places so they can't kick out people hanging around doing no harm. But if someone is being creepy that's different.

It was like that for me as a 17 year old, other posters too. That doesn't make it acceptable that it's like that for your DD but I think people forget just how prevalent it is when your a teen. It's very weird that it's when you least equipped to deal with it that you get the most harassment but I guess that's also why they do it.

One thing that also made it worst in the past, probably now as well, was the rise in PUA types. The whole "training" they gave was literally to go up and start a conversation with as many girls as possible using the conversational techniques. So you would have exactly the same line being used on you by odd men multiple times and at first you'd respond normally but because it was always a segue into creepy weirdness, by the 3rd/4th time your heart would sink. The original PUA types have faded but their legacy lives on in weird YouTube videos. And middle aged socially awkward and creepy men are big consumers of those. It's not just teenage boys.

Urgh. The one bright spot is that while the creeps still exist, it seems less socially acceptable to be creepy to 17 year olds. I can remember being followed round a train station with my friend at about 15 and when we managed to find station staff they were dismissive/baffled "but there's two of you". I felt really stupid/non streetwise but I was baffled as to how else to deal with it. Now you would hope that if you alert someone to the fact a 40 year old is licking his lips at a teenager other people would at least understand why this was intimidating.

I don't think it's the state of the UK now, I think it's always been this way.

In the late 90s and early 00s when I was 14-18 I had this many times - in library's, in the cafe where I was a waitress, in the supermarket, at the cinema. All men 40+. All pervs. (And all white). I was really hoping it'd be better by now and your post saddens me showing that it isn't.

I used to study in my public library about 40 years ago and it happened then. See also ‘sitting on the bus’, ‘walking down the street’, and ‘working in a restaurant’. Last year my 16 yr old DD was sitting on a train when a man sat next to her in spite of there being plenty of double empty seats available and started playing pocket billiards with himself. These awful creepy men are everywhere.