Men approaching my DD17 at the library- is this really the state of the UK?

[PinkChaires]

Today my dd went to the library to do some revision, and she says that whilst she was using a computer, a man in his fifties came and scooted his chair very close to her and repeatedly asked for her name. She immediately got up but then the man said ‘its alright’ and went away himself. A completely different man of about the same age came not 15 minutes later whilst she was packing up and asked her where are you going. She says he was actually licking his lips. Is this really how its become? Weve been going to this library since she was tiny and shes been going regularly by herself for the past 2 years with no issues like this.

When I was in my heyday many years ago, I remember how yuck men could be. From standing too close to grinning at me and eyes running all over me. I’m now thankfully invisible these days and would never want to be in those shoes again.

I worry for my DD too. Sick of all the disgusting, pervy men.

But where will you go that has no predatory males? The only solution I have found is to avoid public places except those run specifically for children or those managed by sharp tongued harridans.

In my home town there was a pub run by a lady in her 60s and her two sons. She attracted the local student population with low cost food and a zero tolerance approach to grubby creepy men, who she would kick out at the slightest sign of bad behavior. 😊

And incidentally, the first grubby old man who tried it on with me, I was 11. He was about 40 and Welsh. He tried to persuade me to 'go for a walk with him in the sand dunes' while on holiday in Tenby. That was in 1974. It's not a recent problem.

I don’t want to derail an import thread, so excuse me deviating slightly. But please, if your daughters are required to where lanyards, try and ensure they remove them or at last make sure that their name is not visible to strangers when they are out. It is a creep’s paradise.

It doesn’t end either, it’s worse since I turned 40 and my mum was getting men forcing their way into her home to kiss her in her 70s. Women have a lifetime of this
I hate it

It was happening to me in the 60s and 70s - white British men and they are still doing most of it. Your theory is just a distraction.

You are wrong and people older than you will know that. In the 60s and 70s I was frequently flashed at and approached in the street, on trains and buses. It happened so often I learnt to brush it off although I shouldn't have had to.

Where will you emigrate to? Not France for sure - I took my teenage daughter to France in the 90s and the attention she got was really shocking.

This drives me insane. And (non pervy) men just don’t see their privilege in being able to go anywhere and do anything without fearing such things.

The only success I have had in conveying this constant threat that young women in particular live under is by asking men to imagine they are in prison surrounded by six feet tall weightlifters to try to convey the type of differential physical threat that women live under. Sometimes makes them a bit more sensitive to how and when they approach women they don’t know.

It’s this kind of incident too that makes me even crosser at the constant ‘be kind’ messages drilled into our girls. NO. Women are too kind to others. They need to be kind to (and protect) themselves first. Men need to step up and be kind.

I disagree. It’s common sense that men from countries where women are treated as cattle and sub human breeding stock like Afghanistan, or from Sharia law regimes where a woman’s word is worth less than a man’s and where marital rape is legally and religiously sanctioned, will treat (all) women worse!!

Yes, native British men of all colours creeds and cultures are guilty of abusing women - ideally we won’t import the even worse.

Misplaced political correctness and fear of being accused of racism is not an excuse for ignoring the threat posed by men ( not women!) from cultures where women are ‘lesser’.

When DD was at school, the bus stop for the bus to where most of the girls lived was around the corner, next to a (now closed) pub. All tbe girls wearing uniform, so obviously 16 or under in age. I was once at this stop when an older man came out of the pub, lit a fag, then went over to where the girls were waiting. He chose a victim, obviously not 16 but way younger, then although I didn't hear what was said to her, she looked shocked and told him to fuck off and leave her alone. I went into Mum Mode and went to her aid. I kept telling him to fuck off, he's a pervert, how disgusting he was, peadophile, the lot, at the top of my voice. He said, you can't say anything these days! I said, she's a minor, she's out of bounds, you are an adult, now fuck off. He retreated back to the pub. The girl was talking about it to her friends, obviously upset but in an angry way. I hated those pervy men.

Also libraries: yes, DD never went to our local library because it was a perv hangout. I used to go but they never tried it on with me. I am middle aged though.

For fucks sake. It's all men! It's men of all races, nationalities & colours that do it. The common denominator here is men! Men men men men menly men

my village has one person of colour in it - girls and women here are still sexually harassed on a regular basis because it's a man thing

It was ever thus.

Yup.

My mum told me about there always being a creepy uncle when you are 15... I said yeah its your brother!

You clearly have a message to spread (a racist one) but you are wrong and you are dismissing my experiences as a young woman in the 60s and 70s. I won't bother arguing.

I have also visited Muslim countries and not been treated as sub-human. In fact I was born in one (to British parents) in the mid 50s and my mother clearly thought those years were the best in her life.

@ohtowinthelotteryAgreed. I'm nearly 58. I remember going into our small town small branch but big name supermarket shop to buy coffee for my Mother. A smartly suited man came up to me & asked my age
I told him. He said: 'that will do nicely,' grinned & licked his lips. It turned out he was an area manager, on inspection. I was 12.

You may accuse me of misandry or sexism but not racism. I am a firm supporter of asylum being offered to Afghani women and all women and children fleeing from danger.

I am not dismissing your experiences either. Mine have been different.

Grim and depressing.

It's odd for DD as she is nearly 6ft and while she gets looks she isn't very aware of her looks and walks with her head down a lot. We went to an event in London and were walking around stalls chatting and interacting. One stall was for pet food so I stopped and signed up and one of the men there was a short 60ish man who said he used to be a teacher. Named the school which I vaguely recognised. While I filled in the form he turned to DD and began talking, asking if she was at Uni. She replied she's in Y10 and just starting GCSEs and I could feel this pause and the conversation tone completely changed. He said something about going to parties and distraction from exams that I mostly missed but I handed back the tablet just as he was saying he knew she would do well because she looks like an angel who would stay in studying with books on the bed... his eyes were honestly laser focused on her at this point and he barely noticed me handing back the tablet. It's so weird because although he didn't say anything "bad" exactly I just KNEW where he went in his mind, and all ONLY when he found out she was 14, not before, didn't give a stuff because she looks 18. For the rest of the day we were cut in front of by boys and their dads at nearly every table. I was so frustrated after 4 hours I just wanted to leave. DD seemed completely used to it. I clearly haven't mingled for a while but I don't remember the sense of urgent entitlement - there used to be men who would loudly say "hold on Ben, that lady was here first" but no, not once.

What do you say as a mum to let these guys know you're onto them? I just left but it would be nice to have a line.

This, I'm 58 and me and my friends were flashed at and hassled on buses and in parks when we were teens.

I actually think there should be a social experiment where girls have cameras on their bags or coats and wear them for a month on the way to and from school. I bet you if you counted the looks and comments it would be over 100 in a week. I saw a study saying the reason many girls don't like school uniforms is because they get harassed more by men when they are wearing them for sex.

DD has a part time job in a supermarket whilst she's at uni. She's been harassed many times by older men whilst at the till or on self service. Some of her colleagues have as well. She had a "love note" passed to her by one man she described as probably being in his 50s. She took it to the manager and reported it. That's when it came out that she wasn't the first. The Police apparently know about the harassers too.

And in those cultures there are also plenty of men treat women and girls with respect.

Just as in the whole British culture there are men who.objectify and abuse women and girls.

Please listen to all the women on this thread pointing out there are sleaze bags in every culture.

Let's face it, the USA have elected a (white) man found guilty of sexual assault as president. What does that say about the culture of the USA, or women's rights in the USA? Or is that OK because he us white?

Your bigotry is clouding your judgement. It's just men. White men are just as bad. I'm 43 and thankfully they leave me alone now, but I was endlessly harassed when I was young. It was white men, because I lived in a mainly white area. Old ones, young ones, men in vans, men on building sites, men in cars, men on the street, university lecturers, bouncers, men in the gym. Just men.

Yes I’ve been stood in the queue behind one of these men, with the girl on the till being polite but clearly getting uncomfortable. I normally butt into the conversation a bit and give him a narrow eyed look to let him know to pack it in.
I think there’s a sub set of wanker men who don’t really view any woman as actually human, and young girls only exist to fuel their fevered fantasies. When women get older we exist to listen to their problems ( that’s the kind of hassle I get nowadays).
Its really depressing.