Men approaching my DD17 at the library- is this really the state of the UK?

[PinkChaires]

Today my dd went to the library to do some revision, and she says that whilst she was using a computer, a man in his fifties came and scooted his chair very close to her and repeatedly asked for her name. She immediately got up but then the man said ‘its alright’ and went away himself. A completely different man of about the same age came not 15 minutes later whilst she was packing up and asked her where are you going. She says he was actually licking his lips. Is this really how its become? Weve been going to this library since she was tiny and shes been going regularly by herself for the past 2 years with no issues like this.

Reminds me of this song that's circulating on social media:

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1G8kQcFH5V/

It is a great message, if only the girl at the back didn't look as if she was forced into being part of it when she didn't want to be...

Yes not a great video but there's loads of them circulating. I just chose the first link to share.

Unfortunately with the majority of men or men's family backgrounds in some cities and areas being from developing countries based on official mysoginies incased in both law and culture this is seen as normal and has spread to the UK. Women and girls harassed and humiliated in broad daylight, in public view, in front of others. Women especially white women are seen as no more than meat to be abused and humiliated.
I have experienced it widely in the last decade. I plan on leaving, the huge population changes make it unsuitable to be a woman in the UK.
I disagree that it's always been like this, 50 year olds approaching 17s year olds in a public space licking their lips. Or even younger girls we often here about and experience.
You are out of your mind to be thinking that it's always been on this scale and that open, although in men from some backgrounds it has, even thinking back to my childhood. T
You can thank the:brain boxes" that run the country for allowing those population changes and importantly don't forget to thank the bleeding hearts that are too old, presenting as "men" and therefore not a target, the delusional, never lived in the areas like that and those mysogonists who think the needs of an affluent man from a third world country coming over through a criminal network and who probably obtained the means illegal in search of a better life trump the rights and freedoms of women in this country.

Oh come off it. I doubt they are bothering middle aged or elderly women. 🙄

Agreed. Don't accept this OP. Call them and kick off, it's not ok. I'm angry on you and your DDs behalf.

My DD is not yet 12 and ive seen guys check her out, grim.

Ignore those saying as old as time, yes there has always been some, but never of the proportion or levels of predation it's now.

Never on this scale before, so openly and boldly and targeting young girls. It happens much more often, aggressively, in the open and even when out with kids.

I plan to emigrate because of how widespread it has become.

The people who gave harassed my daughter have been white.

She hasn't spoken to them, so I can't say whether they are mother tongue English speakers. But we live in an area with a large mosque and large community of Pakistani heritage. She has never been harassed by men or boys of Pakistani heritage, only by white adult men.

Not out of our minds.
People are sharing their actual experiences from their actual lives that they lived. Do you think all the people sharing stories imagined it?
I swear some of the same men who were infuriated by the recent push back against creepy male behaviour, are the same men who are jumping on the "men from other cultures don't know how to respect women" bandwagon. First it was "women are making up how bad this is" then it was "women aren't making it up but actually the bad men are in a different group to mine and women are just wrong and crazy for claiming otherwise". Actually, I know they are the same men because in many cases it's literally the same public figures and journalists.

It's not at all nice to be cat called or harassed by men with brown skin/Muslims. It's also not nice to be cat called and harassed by white Christian men. Or Jewish men. Or atheists. All of it is unacceptable behaviour, especially when it's targeted towards children.

I didn't want to post it on this thread because its not really relevant to the OP.
But when I was harassed at 15 (followed round station and hair and chest touched) I did tell my mum and she wasn't horrible but basically gave the impression I was making a bit of a fuss. (I think charitably she didn't want me to blow it up into a big thing and be scared to go out etc.) But I did feel foolish for being bothered by it. Especially because the station staff we found also gave the impression they were surprised we were bothering them with something so minor. But did, when we asked, grudgingly let us wait in the office till the train came. It's not the worst thing that can happen, and I wasn't traumatised but I do remember it. When you're a child your told that you should always find an adult if someone is creepy towards you. But at 15 it's like oh, yeah that doesn't apply anymore. So its a sort of coming of age memory.

Flash forward several decades and my mum was absolutely furious about a news story where an asylum seeker was alleged to have creeped on a girl in a very similar manner. Of course it was bad but it was quite upsetting to me that it wasn't a big deal for it to happen to her own 15 year old daughter but it was when it happened to a stranger. I tried talking about but she genuinely didn't remember the incident in question. And my mum is genuinely a good person. She wasn't like a horrible narcissist growing up. I don't know if it's changing awareness of subconscious bias.

Aaargh. It is good if people are more angered by it now than they were. I do hope that people continue to keep that energy for all forms of harassment of children.

No one should be harassed, especially sexually harassed.

The reality is a small proportion of men do this. White British as well as 'furriners'.

Talking with DD about places to go for help if I am.not around I include our next door neighbours (Muslim, Pakistani heritage), the mosque 24/7 security staff, as well as white British neighbours.

To add, DD is black and has been racially abused by white British adult men. She is a very petite teenage girl who obviously can't retaliate physically.

Oh man I was harassed, followed, groped, catcalled, attacked- you name it- from the age of 12 onwards. It was equal opportunities abuse, not from a particular race.
I can relate to your story persephonia. My mother played down all harassment I suffered, including a man trying to rape me at 15. Fuck knows why. If that happened to my kid and she came home and told me I’d be out on the street with a fucking weapon looking to disembowel the perpetrator.

I imagine if you tell we must respect, encourage, welcome and be apologist for behaviours that are clearly abusive in the public sphere e.g women walking 6 paces behind men, women fully wrapped in fabrics head to toe, girls denied freedoms to be a child and free opportunities at school, operating a place of worship next to OP's house that doesn't admit women or segregates women from men to reduce lust, or OP's own daughter aftaid to tell her the truth because of being accused of dont know what (or perhaps she presents as demographic that doesn't get harassed by men of some backgrounds) that doesn't help promote equality or freedom or respectful treatment for any women in the UK on the whole. You cannot say abuse for religious or cultural reasons is okay. Other predators see it as green light.

No one is saying that's ok.

Some if us are pointing out that
a) that isn't the case with the majority of (i imagine you are accusing) Muslim communities, and
b) there is a significant problem with child and female abuse in the white British male community as well

And we are telling you, in some areas it's not a small proportion, it's door to door, all the time, towards not just women or little kids too and severely overrepresented (pretty much all) in a demographic that is very much underrepresented in general population in the UK. Nobody says that they are the only ones.

This

Who on this thread has said any of that? I don't even understand some of what you wrote "or perhaps she presents as demographic that doesn't get harassed by men of some backgrounds". What does that even mean? The OP didn't mention the background of the men at all. Let alone the daughter being afraid to mention it. You've made all of that up and then inserted possible explanations for the completely made up scenario.

I completely agree we shouldn't accept that behaviour regardless of background. But it's also annoying when 3 pages of women sharing their own experiences gets suddenly detailed by an influx of posters shouting "white men don't do it as much as other men. It was never like this in the past". Despite everything already said on this thread. So presumably on some level you do want to find reasons that it wasn't as bad when men did it in the past compared to certain men now.

As I said, we live next door to a large mosque. Neither I (faded middle aged) nor DD (teenager who wears skimpy clothing whenever she chooses) has ever had a problem with Muslim neighbours. Everyone just gets on with their lives.

She has been both racially and sexually harassed by white males on public transport. In each case to the extent it has met the criteria of a hate crime (racial abuse) or sexual crime (watching her while masturbating on public transport).

Libraries are full of weirdos and people with MH / other issues.
It’s such a shame for young people who wish to study there, and families with children going to read books but it’s not really safe. The councils have shut everything meant for those with nowhere to go during the day and no money, so they’re at the library. Free internet and heating. Libraries are not what they used to be.

Except that one is illegal and a crime and the other is normalised and to be celebrated as a "culture" thanks to the brain-free bleeding heart racist hypocrits who will never mix with anyone outside of own bubbles while calling others names for pointing out abuse.
Police, teachers, councillors, social workers saw abuse of little kids and said nothing to those men.

Look, we get it, you hate Muslim men. Give it a rest for crying out loud.

You hate women and you hate people, particularly of certain background. And you particularly hate women and girls.

I am not sure what your point is

Abuse is abuse. Sadly it exists in every community.

Highlighting one community over another doesn't help in tackling abuse

Yes, and my mum was a good caring mother.

We were right by the train tracks as well so even though there were two of us I had a scary thought "what if he pushes one of us on the tracks". But I was made to feel so stupid for even feeling threatened. Mostly by the station guard but also my mums reaction contributed though I don't think that was her intention.

The only thing I can think is that it was seen as less of an issue then, but also that probably it was seen as better to brush things of so as to help you be tough. Which is sensible when it's a child that grazes it's knee. But I would have appreciated being told "that was completely unacceptable and you did the right thing finding another adult". But she was doing her best and maybe didn't want me to think it was a big thing as that would maybe make me more afraid?
He was white and had an accent from our area but also reeked of cannabis which made him seem more unpredictable.

Correction, I hate men. ALL men, not just the brown ones.