Men approaching my DD17 at the library- is this really the state of the UK?

[PinkChaires]

Today my dd went to the library to do some revision, and she says that whilst she was using a computer, a man in his fifties came and scooted his chair very close to her and repeatedly asked for her name. She immediately got up but then the man said ‘its alright’ and went away himself. A completely different man of about the same age came not 15 minutes later whilst she was packing up and asked her where are you going. She says he was actually licking his lips. Is this really how its become? Weve been going to this library since she was tiny and shes been going regularly by herself for the past 2 years with no issues like this.

I should also say I work in criminal justice and believe me, the demographic is extremely varied. It’s the suited and booted estate agent, the popular teacher, the council official, the family man.
I don’t know what it is that breeds them and I can’t only pray there are none in my family, but of course I can’t know for sure.

Check to see if possible if there is anything new in the area such as housing for men released from prison or any new facility for mentally ill men.
The reason I am mentioning this is that my own personal experience of being harassed in public and at home started with a new facility being opened in my street.
The local police may know if anything has changed.

It is just men - had it since I was 11 but an areas culture does impact on how bad it is.

Moving away to a city for uni actually reduced it for me - and since living in various locations it hugely varries - and I think that how much it's tolerated by wider society or how much poor behavior spreads unchallenged.

Though it's not fair to expect young female teens to shout or speak up - and lets be honest there a huge risk the men turn nasty and violent or they get blamed for making a fuss.

Yes this would be a good idea

I remember the one of the woman walking around New York that showed how woman are harassed every day

when you talk about this with men they will often come back with one story of a much older woman flirting with them of offering sex as if that is comparable. I don’t think many men are really that bothered about the harassment girls and women face until it’s girls and women in their families (even then it’s so often played down)

Unless that man is from an out group. In which case some of them become very angry indeed. I don't think it's wrong to be angry at outgroup men hurting girls. I hate whataboutery. But it's annoying that someone can talk about how "Andrew Tate/Conor McGregor is speaking to a demographic of young men who do feel unfairly victimised actually" and then the next week be insistent that foreign men just don't have the culture of respecting teenage girls that we Western men naturally have.

I think some men feel very attacked when women talk about being harassed. Even if you start by saying "not all men" they still.have to chip in to say "not all men, women can be bad too, you can't smear a whole group".
I think if all men (and probably women too) had the same energy for men from their own "in group" or social circle harrasing girls as they do for men that are different to them, a lot of this would stop over night. Because actually it is the attitude of the people around them that makes the biggest difference to how far some men will go.
I don't expect men to be charging in putting their lives at risk against scary strangers. But it's the more day to day stuff like not smirking when their 46 year old friend is asking the 17 year old waitress if she has a boyfriend while staring at her chest. It's more boring than man saves the day by fighting dragon foreigner though and probably less fun that dressing up as St George and shouting about invasions.

I no longer say not all men. I’m fed up with protecting men’s feelings

if in context of the conversation I will say too many men, if they feel under attack then then so be it I just no longer care

for too long we have tiptoed around the fragile male ego. Yes they should be calling out poor behaviour so rate are the occasions where it wouldn’t be safe to but many will use that excuse when really they cba or are enjoying it themselves. They should also be teaching their sons but it seems the majority of teaching is coming from women

as usual left to us to make the world better for ourselves and girls

But everything men do is actually to impress other men. They have to work out to be stronger than the next man, have a car another man wants, wife/girlfriend another man wants, win things another man wants. If women want it it becomes less wanted. So this is something only men will be able to work on - men need to get on board and see it as something worthwhile to do, to change the culture from aggressor to protector as a socially enviable role.

Oh I agree about not needing to worry about hurting men's feelings.
My comment about them feeling threatened was more to explain the ploppers on this thread. It's really safe for them if they can pretend the problem isn't them, or men like them, but men in some other "bad" group. So a few years ago when women were talking about this it was "not alllll men. What about our feelings. You are being sensitive". Now the new mental comfort blanket is "akshully fellow ladies I think you will find men like me (if I was a man which I'm definitely not) don't do this. It's those other men. So so terrible what they are doing to this country.😥"

It's very obvious. And obviously the horrid foreign men also shouldn't be doing it either.

It's a form of double cowardice. Not wanting to deal with it when they see it from friends or co-workers. But also to cowardly to admit they don't want to deal with it so they pretend they never ever saw it happen, or pretend we unreasonably want them to get into fights, or pretend it does happen but it's never ever men they know doing it.

I did also say not all men because I can remember being creeped on as a teenager by someone and another man shot him down in a really withering, disgusted tone of voice. It was really obvious how quickly creep man immediately looked embarrassed. It's times like those that show what a difference it does make when people say something. If someone is doing something bad in front of other people often the tacit acceptance of other people is an encouragement/ego boost. And makes the child on the receiving end feel as if they are overreacting. Passive bystanders are actually not just doing nothing. They're making the situation worse.

Maybe, possibly it's getting better? Or is that to rosy glasses thinking. While there are young devotees of Andrew Tate I think there is a raised awareness among young people that sexual harassment is actually bad.
It's notable that a lot of the really loud frothing is coming from men in their 30s or older who are "very concerned" about teenage boys/younger men growing up in "a world that hates them". It seems very self serving fake concern. I think they need a camouflage of men younger than them so they don't feel out of date/wrong and resent feeling left behind by the tide. Of course the problem is the internet does let them have a pernicious influence on teenagers to spread their misogynistic ways. Especially when it's dressed up as fake concern/ mixed in with real problems teenagers have.

I first started working in libraries over 30 years ago and it was like it then. At least now the young female staff are backed up and the man removed if they complain, rather than the attitude of ‘just ignore them’ that we got from our managers then. Mainly because significant numbers of management were creepy middle aged men…

I'm a 65 yr old widow. I've been invisible for many years, but the old goat from across the road has been chancing his luck with older carers and widows in the street. (He's much older than us. I've mentioned this on other threads. He claimed to be 50. As I said to one of the other widows, 'Aye...His teeth might be 50. He sure as hell isn't.')

He first propositioned me when my husband was still alive. I now avoid him.

I do notice that my young adult sons are very judgemental about “nonces” and older guys perving on young girls. In their world a 20 year old man definitely shouldn’t be looking at a 16 year old girl- that would be shameful.
I also agree that passive bystanding by men is not a neutral act but makes it worse.
Everyone needs to stand up, not just us dragons!

The odd ones (men) in my library bother anyone who's there alone tbh. If they were perving she should definitely complain to the staff.

I’m in my mid 40s and it’s definitely more white men. On nights out men from other countries chat me up but the street harassment is all white. The van shouters, lorry beepers, the whispers as I walk past, the insidious stares.

If you live in a predominantly white area it's going to be mostly white men. If you live in area where more than 50% are non white its predominantly non white men. Guess the common factor...
I do find I dont really get bothered as much as when I was 14 to 22. Sorry to the women who are still getting hassled as they get older.
And I'm glad library staff are coming on to say they do take it seriously.

I live in a very mixed area, always have

Yes, you could say that. You could also ask why they wouldn't try and make a friend their own age. What do they think they'd have in common with a 17 year old girl? More to the point, why the hell do they think a 17 year old girl would or shoud want to help them resolve their 'loneliness?' They should fuck off and leave girls alone.

Yeah, you're not wrong. I am not condoning harassment!

Part of life. You just have to deal with it. Report it to the staff. We also have a security guard.

We had more of a problem with rowdy teens using it as a hang out place.
Often they had to be asked to leave. They were loud, sweary and had no respect for anyone else.

Seems to be better now. I guess more and more people are online now with phones etc and at home.

I think the government giving free internet access to everyone was a good thing.
I used it to get online for free.

Oh well, you emigrate then 😂