Labour isn't working - Thread 11

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5416167-labour-isnt-working-thread-10?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Ah! The Green and the LibDem protest vote!

The LibDems are to the Conservatives what the Greens are to Labour, the knee jerk protest vote.

I will be astonished if more than 18% of those who say they will vote for them, and who actually might vote for them, have the faintest of faint ideas what they actually stand for, because if they did they would not entertain voting for them.

It's a lazy way of saying "I can't be arsed to vote Labour/Con".

🤣🤣

I am amazed to see all these threads, as nobody dared say a bad word about Labour before last year's election. Good to see though.

Well we did, lots of us did. But we were accused of being ‘Tory bots’ or extreme right wing ‘frothers’. Then posts got deleted all the time. Bit different now, thankfully.

Still some posts on this thread get mysteriously deleted. The Starmer loyal delusional folk can’t help but read our thread. Think they love us too ❤️

Mysteriously just like that 😜🤦‍♀️

Oof. Kemi is going big on immigration.

Modelled on the "successful approach" of the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency, this new force would be given "sweeping new powers", and over £1bn in new funding.

The new "Removals Force" that she will unveil will replace the existing Home Office Immigration Enforcement (IE) and will be given broad new powers, including being able to use facial recognition without warning in order to spot illegal immigrants.
In addition to confirming plans to leave the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), announced on Saturday, Ms Badenoch will also vow to fully repeal the Human Rights Act, and leave the Council of Europe Convention on Action Against Trafficking in Human Beings.This, the Tories say, would "end the legal blocks that allow illegal immigrants, and in some cases foreign criminals, to stay in the UK based on flimsy claims".A radical overhaul of the asylum system would see refugee status granted only to those threatened by a foreign government, and those fleeing conflict or "less tolerant" laws on religion or sexuality would not be eligible, with the party saying "few people will qualify".The plan will also see the immigration tribunal abolished, with all decisions on migration taken by the Home Office with only limited rights of appeal in cases where officials have acted without statutory authority.Immigration cases will be denied legal aid, with the Tories accusing solicitors of having "defrauded" the UK by "coaching" applicants and arguing there is "no need for lawyers" as people "should simply tell the truth about their circumstances".https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-party-pledges-1-6bn-ice-style-removals-force-to-detain-and-deport-illegal-migrants-13444647

Thank you, and welcome 😁
A few of us 'dared', we have the scars to prove it 😂.

😂 PTSD I think @twistyizzy called it

Interesting.. 🧐

‘Our Stronger Borders plan is serious and credible and backed by a comprehensive legal analysis.’ I’d like to see that

in principle I align most closely with the Lib Dems - I know exactly what they stand for, and while I don’t agree with everything they are the closest to representing my perspective. They will never win an election, though, so never get my vote. One of the more depressing aspects of fptp system for me is mostly having to vote for the party you fear the least rather than the one you are excited by.

So true. I remember the threads that led to this one. Finally able to chat without abuse hurled and ‘bot’ accusations. As if everyone has to bow to Starmer and co 🙄

Pre GE was an absolute bin fire of Labour loyalty.

‘"This Labour government is fixing the Tories' mess by smashing the people-smuggling gangs running the vile small boats trade, closing asylum hotels, deporting foreign criminals and signing international returns deals to bring order to Britain's borders’

😂😂🤣🤣🫣 They’re on a different planet from the rest of us. They sound like the non player character (NPC) field guide in Jumanji, repeating the same meaningless sentences over and over.

They really do. Great comparison.

@whatwhatwhatisgoingon the ID card thing isn't a surprise to me

What is a surprise to me is the cack handed way of trying to introduce it

Also, I know the Conservatives carry a lot of blame in terms of problems with people trying to get into the country, but I feel as if Labour actually want it to continue.

Whereas Priti Patel and Suella Braverman genuinely tried to do something about it - my understanding is that lawyers advised them that their ideas would not work. (And Rishi Sunak had ideas for dealing with it but got shouted down).

I think I asked on MN before if that was lawyers engaged by the government effectively telling them not to do it. That links into my concerns about the judiciary.

Also, I feel as if I don't know what Labour are actually aiming for with the economy. I appreciate it may well be the opposite of what many of us want, but I feel as if they have no plan at all.

another moment of posting something risky here - many people thought that Labour were more likely to push ahead with a WEF linked plan to have managed decline, which would make us a more likely candidate for some kind of globoslop approach. I appreciate many posters will think I'm in conspiracy theory territory with that one.

Nigel Billingsley ‘possessing only a set pool of dialogue from which he cannot deviate.’

Otherwise known as the Labour Party.

The only new dialogue they’ve come up with is about ID cards - and that wasn’t in their manifesto next to ‘smash the gangs’ ‘VAT on private school fees ‘6000 new teachers for state schools’ or ‘breakfast clubs’ .

Doesn’t ’managed decline’ seek to ‘minimize social disruption, environmental damage, and economic chaos’? They’re not doing a very good job of it if so. Still it doesn’t mean that’s not what they’re intending.

Something is going on. In Wales we have a first minister who's basically gone very low key. Whereas our ex first minister is popping up all over the place. He's definitely still in charge I suspect but behind the scenes.

Starmer bullishness over id cards is another odd thing.

No idea what is happening in Scotland, who's running things but Gordon Brown will be in the mix.

Could they all be prepping for a war footing in Europe?

😂😂

We are all just sitting ducks no one has an idea what’s going on so we are all guessing. I hope to god it’s just ineptitude and lack of direction it’s fucking terrifying

@Absentosaur that's the business definition I think, like retiring a product

I don't know if there's an official definition in terms of politics

But my understanding is that if government are determined to have a manage decline, it can often be that social unrest is an excuse to go along with it even more. That intern means that in reality, governments welcome the unrest because they can accelerate the decline

I don't particularly like the term, as I've only ever heard it used in contexts where things are being permitted or even encouraged to fall apart, and I would say social unrest as part of that.

Happy to be corrected, not a politics expert by any stretch

I don’t entirely share your view. I’m centrist/left Tory. But I feel some affinity with the Liberal tradition.

I admired the Orange Book LibDems. But they’ve junked the small ‘l’ liberal economic outlook now. I suspect I’d still see some overlap with the social liberalism of the right of the LibDems. But the dominance of the left of the party - and the crazy Green element - has made it impossible for me to vote for them.

One of the more depressing aspects of fptp system for me is mostly having to vote for the party you fear the least rather than the one you are excited by.

Yep, I vote for who I think will do the least damage to the country. In 60-odd years of voting I have only ever voted with my heart once. Maggie Thatcher's second term in 1983.

Apologies if I've already posted this but these numbers are crazy

Harrietsham Lenham & North Downs (Maidstone) Council By-Election Result:

➡️ RFM: 50.4% (+38.8)
🌍 GRN: 18.8% (New)
🌳 CON: 14.0% (-2.6)
🔶 LDM: 9.7% (New)
🏰 HER: 4.0% (New)
🙋 Ind: 3.0% (New)

No Ind (-57.8) or LAB (-13.9) as previous.

Reform GAIN x3 from Independent.

Also new since Conference

Westminster Voting Intention:

RFM: 34% (+2)
LAB: 21% (-1)
CON: 16% (-1)
LDM: 12% (-2)
GRN: 10% (+3)
SNP: 2% (-1)

Via @OpiniumResearch, 1-3 Oct.

That is astonishing! Note the green vote. That's worrying.