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Labour isn't working - Thread 11

1000 replies

TheNuthatch · 29/09/2025 22:18

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5416167-labour-isnt-working-thread-10?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

OP posts:
Thread gallery
64
Upstartled · 03/10/2025 08:30

TheNuthatch · 03/10/2025 08:28

Like Trump signing executive orders you mean?

There must be a way to stop it in parliament? Every other party has come out against it, and Labour have no mandate.

Ah, well one is anti-democratic and the other is anti-democratic with a red rosette.

EmpressoftheMundane · 03/10/2025 08:32

As for ID cards,

All the opposition parties should bring ID up constantly.

Newspapers should constantly querry the procurement and selection of vendor, and whether all regulations are being follOwed correctly. If they follow the rules, it should take at least two years to procure, before development can even start.

Citizens should sue on rights grounds.

All of society should pull together to make getting this done like walking through treacle. If it takes long enough, someone else will be in power.

Upstartled · 03/10/2025 08:32

Absentosaur · 03/10/2025 08:30

💯 This government are gaslighting champions. Need to be good at something, I suppose.

Well when you cut your teeth on telling people that you can change sex through magical thinking and to think otherwise makes you a bigot, then you have a test bed of how fucking stupid people are prepared to be to stay in the gang.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

upseedaisee · 03/10/2025 08:39

Ya know,I think I've just found the other shoe. I'm probably wide of the mark, BUT. Is it not strange that ID cards have been floated about within days of David Davis's speech leading the debate over the Mandelson affair. All of a sudden we are all talking about ID cards that may not even appear, while Peter Mandelson's ignomy is out of the news.

EasternStandard · 03/10/2025 08:39

TheNuthatch · 03/10/2025 08:20

in line with our manifesto commitment to modernise government

This line stood out to me. Are they going to try and gaslight us into believing that they actually have a mandate for this?

Ffs they deserve to lose. Fuckers

Gaslighting on this level. I’m glad they’re seeing it in votes already.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 03/10/2025 08:40

From above, the gov’s position is that:

For clarity, it will not be a criminal offence to not hold a digital ID and police will not be able to demand to see a digital ID as part of a “stop and search.”

So what’s the point in it? (Leaving aside that such an offence can easily be introduced later by this gov or another one)

ID clearly won’t stop off-the-books working because the people who do that don’t do the necessary checks now. And if it won’t be an offence not to produce ID on demand how would somebody’s immigration status be checkable any more easily than now?

The rest of the guff in that statement is just about how life will be easier for government not for people.

Buying alcohol? Seriously? Young people carry ID already. And it takes the server to ask anyway: if unscrupulous shopkeepers want to sell booze and fags to minors they just won’t ask.

This scheme is absolute nonsense.

twistyizzy · 03/10/2025 08:41

upseedaisee · 03/10/2025 08:39

Ya know,I think I've just found the other shoe. I'm probably wide of the mark, BUT. Is it not strange that ID cards have been floated about within days of David Davis's speech leading the debate over the Mandelson affair. All of a sudden we are all talking about ID cards that may not even appear, while Peter Mandelson's ignomy is out of the news.

Plus the 750K "donations", plus the rent boys . .... nothing happens by accident

upseedaisee · 03/10/2025 08:45

I feel a letter to my MP coming on. I'd like him to expalin a few things.😡

Absentosaur · 03/10/2025 08:51

Upstartled · 03/10/2025 08:32

Well when you cut your teeth on telling people that you can change sex through magical thinking and to think otherwise makes you a bigot, then you have a test bed of how fucking stupid people are prepared to be to stay in the gang.

This is very true. People’s desperate willingness to deny biological reality, does indeed tell us a lot about these people. Of course Comrade Keir, of course women can have dicks. Whatever you say Sir. Oh hang on can we have Sir’s in our everybody is equal sham utopia? Yes? Oh ok comrade. I mean Sir.

Gvts / despots have done the same with Religion since time began. Gender woo definitely feels like a religion / cult at times. And yes, it tells us a lot about these people’s propensity to cognitive dissonance. Dangerous

🤢

DancingFerret · 03/10/2025 08:53

Absentosaur · 03/10/2025 08:06

Well it looks like IDs are happening and that’s it.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/730194?reveal_response=yes

Government responded
This response was given on 2 October 2025

We will introduce a digital ID within this Parliament to help tackle illegal migration, make accessing government services easier, and enable wider efficiencies. We will consult on details soon.

The Government has announced plans to introduce a digital ID system which is fit for the needs of modern Britain. We are committed to making people’s everyday lives easier and more secure, to putting more control in their hands (including over their own data), and to driving growth through harnessing digital technology. We also want to learn from countries which have digitised government services for the benefit of their citizens, in line with our manifesto commitment to modernise government.

Currently, when UK citizens and residents use public services, start a new job, or, for example, buy alcohol, they often need to present an assortment of physical documents to prove who they are or things about themselves. This is both bureaucratic for the individual and creates space for abuse and fraud. This includes known issues with illegal working and modern slavery, while the fragmented approach and multiple systems across Government make it difficult for people to access vital services. Further, there are too many people who are excluded, like the 1 in 10 UK adults who don’t have a physical photo ID, so can struggle to prove who they are and access the products and services they are entitled to.

To tackle these interlinked issues, we will introduce a new national digital ID. This is not a card but a new digital identity that will be available for free to all UK citizens and legal residents aged 16 and over (although we will consider through consultation if this should be age 13 and over). Over time, people will be able to use it to seamlessly access a range of public and private sector services, with the aim of making our everyday lives easier and more secure. It will not be compulsory to obtain a digital ID but it will be mandatory for some applications.

For example, the new digital ID will build on GOV.UK One Login and the GOV.UK Wallet to drive the transformation of public services. Over time, this system will allow people to access government services – such as benefits or tax records – without needing to remember multiple logins or provide physical documents.

It will significantly streamline interactions with the state, saving time and reducing frustrating paperwork, while also helping to create opportunities for more joined up government services. International examples show how beneficial this can be.

For instance, Estonia’s system reportedly saves each citizen hours every month by streamlining unnecessary bureaucracy, and the move to becoming a digital society has saved taxpayer money.

By the end of this Parliament, employers will have to check the new digital ID when conducting a ‘right to work’ check. This will help combat criminal gangs who promise access to the UK labour market in order to profit from dangerous and illegal channel crossings. It will create a fairer system between UK citizens and legal residents, crack down on forged documents, and streamline the process for employers, driving up compliance. Further, it will create business information showing where employers are conducting checks, so driving more targeted action against non-compliant employers.

For clarity, it will not be a criminal offence to not hold a digital ID and police will not be able to demand to see a digital ID as part of a “stop and search.”

Privacy and security will also be central to the digital ID programme. We will follow data protection law and best practice in creating a system which people can rightly put their trust in. People in the UK already know and trust digital credentials held in their phone wallets to use in their everyday lives, from paying for things to storing boarding passes. The new system will be built on similar technology and be your boarding pass to government. Digitally checkable digital credentials are more secure than physical documents which can be lost, copied or forged, and often mean sharing more information than just what is necessary for a given transaction.

The new system will be designed in accordance with the highest security standards to protect against a comprehensive range of threats, including cyber-attacks.

We will launch a public consultation in the coming weeks and work closely with employers, trade unions, civil society groups and other stakeholders, to co-design the scheme and ensure it is as secure and inclusive as possible. Following consultation, we will seek to bring forward legislation to underpin this system.

Department for Science, Innovation and Technology

I had a feeling that would be the response.

This government is better described as a dictatorship. They have an agenda and they intend to see it through to the bitter end - and it will be bitter.

EasternStandard · 03/10/2025 08:54

Absentosaur · 03/10/2025 08:51

This is very true. People’s desperate willingness to deny biological reality, does indeed tell us a lot about these people. Of course Comrade Keir, of course women can have dicks. Whatever you say Sir. Oh hang on can we have Sir’s in our everybody is equal sham utopia? Yes? Oh ok comrade. I mean Sir.

Gvts / despots have done the same with Religion since time began. Gender woo definitely feels like a religion / cult at times. And yes, it tells us a lot about these people’s propensity to cognitive dissonance. Dangerous

🤢

Edited

I bet those wanting ID will be less sanguine when it’s not Starmer’s blustering face in power, after he gets voted out.

Absentosaur · 03/10/2025 08:54

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 03/10/2025 08:40

From above, the gov’s position is that:

For clarity, it will not be a criminal offence to not hold a digital ID and police will not be able to demand to see a digital ID as part of a “stop and search.”

So what’s the point in it? (Leaving aside that such an offence can easily be introduced later by this gov or another one)

ID clearly won’t stop off-the-books working because the people who do that don’t do the necessary checks now. And if it won’t be an offence not to produce ID on demand how would somebody’s immigration status be checkable any more easily than now?

The rest of the guff in that statement is just about how life will be easier for government not for people.

Buying alcohol? Seriously? Young people carry ID already. And it takes the server to ask anyway: if unscrupulous shopkeepers want to sell booze and fags to minors they just won’t ask.

This scheme is absolute nonsense.

Edited

Agreed. The italics were my highlighting, because well.. exactly what you said. So what is the point.

TheNuthatch · 03/10/2025 09:02

Absentosaur · 03/10/2025 08:51

This is very true. People’s desperate willingness to deny biological reality, does indeed tell us a lot about these people. Of course Comrade Keir, of course women can have dicks. Whatever you say Sir. Oh hang on can we have Sir’s in our everybody is equal sham utopia? Yes? Oh ok comrade. I mean Sir.

Gvts / despots have done the same with Religion since time began. Gender woo definitely feels like a religion / cult at times. And yes, it tells us a lot about these people’s propensity to cognitive dissonance. Dangerous

🤢

Edited

So true.
You can see the pretzelling and mental gymnastics on mn daily.

OP posts:
TheNuthatch · 03/10/2025 09:03

EasternStandard · 03/10/2025 08:54

I bet those wanting ID will be less sanguine when it’s not Starmer’s blustering face in power, after he gets voted out.

Exactly 💯

OP posts:
ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 03/10/2025 09:05

Also, Estonia?

The population of Estonia is 1.3 million.
The database is incomparable to the fuck knows how many million we are now.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 03/10/2025 09:06

Absentosaur · 03/10/2025 08:54

Agreed. The italics were my highlighting, because well.. exactly what you said. So what is the point.

And…one other country is mentioned in that government statement, in approving terms: Estonia.

A quick google shows that in Estonia it is an offence not to produce an ID card to “state agents”.

So the comparison is shite on many levels, not least because they’re leaning on the record of a state that does what they’ve ruled out!

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 03/10/2025 09:08

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 03/10/2025 09:05

Also, Estonia?

The population of Estonia is 1.3 million.
The database is incomparable to the fuck knows how many million we are now.

Yes, that’s a very big part of what I meant by the comparison being generally shite. Even if you strip away any administrative or legal differences, Estonia is nothing like the UK. 🙄

Upstartled · 03/10/2025 09:09

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 03/10/2025 09:05

Also, Estonia?

The population of Estonia is 1.3 million.
The database is incomparable to the fuck knows how many million we are now.

1.3 million is pocket change. It is roughly the number of people who arrived in the country in 2023.

EasternStandard · 03/10/2025 09:13

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 03/10/2025 09:06

And…one other country is mentioned in that government statement, in approving terms: Estonia.

A quick google shows that in Estonia it is an offence not to produce an ID card to “state agents”.

So the comparison is shite on many levels, not least because they’re leaning on the record of a state that does what they’ve ruled out!

Fucking hell. What absolute turds. Every time they lose more votes I’ll be happy. Sod them.

They would love this “state agent” offence.

CruCru · 03/10/2025 09:24

DancingFerret · 03/10/2025 08:53

I had a feeling that would be the response.

This government is better described as a dictatorship. They have an agenda and they intend to see it through to the bitter end - and it will be bitter.

The PM was never going to be swayed by the general population. What will make a difference is being asked about the digital IDs in the HoC and having his own people sit in silence behind him. That spooks him.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 03/10/2025 09:24

EasternStandard · 03/10/2025 09:13

Fucking hell. What absolute turds. Every time they lose more votes I’ll be happy. Sod them.

They would love this “state agent” offence.

There is that angle on it - shouldn’t we be suspicious of their denial of ID-related offences when they rely on the track records of countries where it is an offence not to produce ID on demand? - but my point was a broader one.

Taking the government at its word, i.e. no requirement to have or show ID, how can they possibly compare with countries that do impose that? The Estonian system may very well only produce any positive results (if it even does) because everyone has to carry ID and knows they get punished for not producing it.

I’m far from convinced that I’d want Estonian (or many other countries’) systems and law in the UK anyway, ID or no ID.

EasternStandard · 03/10/2025 09:30

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 03/10/2025 09:24

There is that angle on it - shouldn’t we be suspicious of their denial of ID-related offences when they rely on the track records of countries where it is an offence not to produce ID on demand? - but my point was a broader one.

Taking the government at its word, i.e. no requirement to have or show ID, how can they possibly compare with countries that do impose that? The Estonian system may very well only produce any positive results (if it even does) because everyone has to carry ID and knows they get punished for not producing it.

I’m far from convinced that I’d want Estonian (or many other countries’) systems and law in the UK anyway, ID or no ID.

Edited

Exactly. In my outrage I just splurted a response 😬. I absolutely agree, we should not look to a system that does this. I don’t want it anyway but I certainly don’t want one when Estonia is held up as a good system.

EasternStandard · 03/10/2025 09:32

CruCru · 03/10/2025 09:24

The PM was never going to be swayed by the general population. What will make a difference is being asked about the digital IDs in the HoC and having his own people sit in silence behind him. That spooks him.

It’s all about PMQs and his leadership. Yes it will spook him. Good

Agreement with @DancingFerrettoo on dictatorship and bitter end being bitter

upseedaisee · 03/10/2025 09:42

CruCru · 03/10/2025 09:24

The PM was never going to be swayed by the general population. What will make a difference is being asked about the digital IDs in the HoC and having his own people sit in silence behind him. That spooks him.

The dissenters will be whipped into staying out of the house. That seems to be their stock in trade answer to the backbenchers who don't agree with the lord high poo-ba.

upseedaisee · 03/10/2025 09:50

There are so many holes in that answer that it almost accepts ID cards are probably not going to be enforced in this parliament. With luck it will carry over to the next, who will instantly dismiss it. All it will do is make sure Labour stay in the wilderness for many years to come and they have given whoever follows a positive start to their government. The more I think about it, the more I think it is simply a distraction.

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