Labour isn't working - Thread 10

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5411817-labour-isnt-working-thread-9?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

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Sorry to bang a drum again…

Data security is certainly a very big concern. But I genuinely think it’s a lesser concern than the purpose of ID cards.

We all have to prove who we are in many situations. But that’s about using a service (state or private) or making a transaction. We already have passports, driving licences, birth certificates, NI numbers, utility bills and the rest of it.

The only reason for an ID card/digital identity would be for it to become an offence not to produce it on demand to police or other law enforcers. Otherwise there’s no point in it. If I have to prove who I am I can do that without an ID card.

ID cards don’t in themselves enable anything or protect against anything in any way we don’t already have. It’s the rules and demands that come with them that they’re created for, and that are so objectionable.

You can just see it.

’We noticed that you used the NHS last month, despite you being in possession of workplace private health cover - we calculate you therefore need to pay xxx within 30 days’.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · Yesterday 21:14
I don't understand how ID cards will stop illegal immigration.
It's not like we don't know who the illegal immigrants are, it's what to do with them that's the mystery

Yes - and if an illegal immigrant is found without a card what will happen?

That’s rather the point. Presumably they’d be arrested for not being able to produce their ID. And that would apply to everyone.

We’ve been here before following emergency war measures. This is the famous story that ended it all:

When Clarence Willcock, a dry cleaning manager, was stopped on suspicion of speeding, the police demanded to see his ID card. He refused on principle, and was convicted and fined at a magistrate's court. He took the case to the Court of Appeal, and although the judgement against him was upheld, Lord Chief Justice Lord Goddard commented that the Act was intended for emergency uses, now over, and should not be invoked on trivial matters. He further remarked that demanding production of the card for its own sake tended “to turn law-abiding subjects into lawbreakers, which is a most undesirable state of affairs." Although he upheld the decision of the lower court, he declined to award costs against Mr Willcock.

From:

https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-abolition-of-identity-cards#:~:text=On%20February%2021st%2C%201952%2C%20Churchill's,campaign%20against%20regulations%20and%20controls.

OK, so someone gets arrested, even though they probably won't. What then? What will happen to them that's different from what's happening now?

They get detained in a cell, questioned under caution, charged, taken to court, fined and - ultimately - criminalised. With all the costs of course.

Presently you can’t be arrested or charged for not producing proof of identity.

I am rather a pedant … but my first thought is that, if my digital ID is on an app on my phone, what happens if I get my phone snatched? Or I run out of data?

Of course it’s about control - and there’s never anything on the other side of the equation protecting free speech, your right to an online private life outside of work etc.

Blair couldn’t get this through and he had more popularity - is Starmer actually having a kami-kaze moment?

he’s spectacularly badly advised.

There won't be enough police cells for staff, or indeed court time for that, uless we invest massively in the police and justice system, but will there be money for that after we pay for the digital ID scheme?

No one will be fined because they don't have the means to pay the fine or the surcharge. No one will be sent away because they will have other applications and appeals pending.

I juts can't see how ID will change anything.

I agree with the gist of that.

But it hasn’t stopped successive governments from creating ever more offences. This police power would be unprecedented in our lifetimes. Police powers have traditionally always been very carefully legislated and reviewed. This would be the mother of all abusable police powers.

And if there is no such offence created, there’s no point in the ID system.

It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

Let's see what happens.

Apparently it won't be used to identify people who qualify for the NHS either, but then again as some doctor on GMB tells us health tourism "only" accounts for less than one percent of their budget so they aren't too bothered about it. With an attitude like that what's the point?

Starmer is mid flow in his typical nasal monotone telling us that they need to get a grip on illegal immigration, and the way they intend to do that is not with deportations or making the country unattractive to migrants.

They are introducing ID digital passes, which will cost tens of millions to us the tax payers, and within a few days said migrants will gain access to them on the black market no doubt and will buy them anyway!

What a total waste of time. A cheap gimmick to deflect the blood bath taking place in the Labour party as Starmer fights for his political career.

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Really did he say that? Interesting. I thought it might be a swap with Macron for them to take more people but if he really is relying on digital ID he’s a goner.

£300 million is lost every single year to health tourism, yeah not worth worrying about mere pennies, as the maternity units collapse around them.

www.themedicportal.com/application-guide/medical-school-interview/nhs-hot-topics/health-tourism/

Yes he just said it, I am listening to him live.

Welcome btw. This thread is absolutely welcoming people pissed off with Starmer and his control scheme.

sorry if you’ve posted before and I’ve missed it in my general annoyance at Labour

Starmer genuinely seems to think an ID pass is going to solve their problems with immigration. You really couldn’t make it up. The feebleness is really quite infuriating.

Do they not realise in order to salvage what is left of any creditability they have in this country they need to come out with something bold and huge?

For example, we are stopping all immigration apart from students and essential workers for 18 months, and no illegal migrants will be processed, and will be sent back. Use emergency powers. They are blowing their chances to recapture their audience by their weak and ineffectual responses. It’s almost compounding their fate.

Thank you that was a lovely welcome 😊 I have found my place

@Nestingbirds Welcome 😁
Agree with everything you've written. I couldn't listen to his speech. He makes me want to vomit and ruins my day.

Some Friday Flowers for you all. To say thank you for keeping me sane when Labour make me feel like I'm about to explode 😘.

How the fuck does this address anything? So now SATS for Yr 8.......and we all know how great they are 🙄

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/sep/26/year-8-state-school-pupils-in-england-could-face-mandatory-reading-tests

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I hope all those teachers who advocated and voted for Labour are happy with it. I'm sure they're thrilled.