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Labour isn't working - Thread 9

1000 replies

TheNuthatch · 16/09/2025 17:55

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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71
twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 18:04

And yeh no tax required because we all pay enough as it is 🥳

Absentosaur · 16/09/2025 18:23

Do we have any idea what Reeves is going to do in this upcoming budget? I dread to think.

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 18:24

Absentosaur · 16/09/2025 18:23

Do we have any idea what Reeves is going to do in this upcoming budget? I dread to think.

I don't think Reeves knows 🤔 Torsten will probably hand her a script before presenting it in HoC

Absentosaur · 16/09/2025 18:26

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 18:24

I don't think Reeves knows 🤔 Torsten will probably hand her a script before presenting it in HoC

True..

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 18:28

Absentosaur · 16/09/2025 18:23

Do we have any idea what Reeves is going to do in this upcoming budget? I dread to think.

My sincere hope is - she tries to shoehorn in something so unpalatable, that the bond markets blow up, the media does a job on her, Starmer runs her over, she turns on the waterworks again - and it proves to be the coup de grace for our nasal PM.

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 18:32

FT

Sorry about the format, but it is worth ploughing through. Sobering stuff.

Chancellor Rachel Reeves has been privately warned by the UK fiscal watchdog that its estimates for productivity are likely to be downgraded ahead of the Budget, making big tax rises more probable. Officials told the Financial Times that Reeves would blame the previous Conservative government for the expected downgrade, arguing that the Office for Budget Responsibility was giving a “historical” verdict on Tory rule from 2010 to 2024. “We don’t know precisely what they are going to say on productivity, but we have been given indications there will be a downgrade,” said one official.

People briefed on Budget preparations have warned that the total fiscal hole could amount to “tens of billions” of pounds — perhaps to £30bn. The OBR downgrade would make up a large portion of the gap. Analysts have predicted the OBR could weaken public finances by at least £9bn by downgrading its productivity estimates, which are seen as too optimistic at present. Although the Treasury insists Reeves will stick to her manifesto commitment not to increase income tax, value added tax or national insurance, the OBR downgrade could provide cover for her to change her mind. The official said: “The untold story of this Budget is the historical legacy of the Conservatives that nobody knew about. The OBR productivity downgrade could amount to half or three-quarters of the fiscal hole.” They added: “This doesn’t reflect on what’s happened since the election, but we are the ones picking up the bill.”

Sir Mel Stride, shadow chancellor, said: “Every time the numbers don’t add up, Rachel Reeves blames someone else. But the truth is the markets are losing confidence . . . Be in no doubt, any downgrade will be down to the chancellor’s economic mismanagement.” Reeves promised after her first Budget in October 2024 that she would not come back with more tax increases or extra borrowing. The OBR declined to comment. The Treasury did not immediately comment. The OBR at present assumes trend productivity growth will average 1.1 per cent over the medium term. Shaving 0.1 or 0.2 percentage points from that forecast would lead to a deterioration in the fiscal position of between £9bn and £18bn, according to Allan Monks, UK economist at JPMorgan.

The government already faced a £6bn shortfall after it retreated on cuts to welfare and winter fuel payments. If UK borrowing costs jump back to the highs reached early this month, it could knock several billion pounds more off Reeves’ fiscal room for manoeuvre. In March, Reeves left herself £9.9bn of headroom against her key fiscal rule, which requires her to fund day-to-day spending, excluding investment, entirely through tax revenues by 2029-30. Analysts expect Reeves to want to restore a buffer at least that big to mitigate the risk of future tax rises if the economy deteriorates further. That could put Labour’s manifesto tax pledges in jeopardy as income tax, VAT and employee NICs are by the far the biggest tax levers available to the chancellor. If Reeves did decide to ditch the tax pledge — currently excluded by the Treasury — one option would be to reverse twin reductions in employee national insurance made by Jeremy Hunt, chancellor under the last Conservative government, that cost the exchequer £20bn.

Another option would be to extend the freeze on personal income tax thresholds, which could deliver close to £10bn of revenue. The prospect of a productivity downgrade has been a persistent threat. Economists argue the OBR has long been too optimistic in its productivity outlook, by sticking with predictions of a rebound despite depressed growth readings. The OBR currently expects a bounceback in productivity growth to around half the pace that preceded the financial crisis. But Andrew Bailey, Bank of England governor, said in June that the central bank was “sceptical” about these predictions.

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2025 18:32

Other than I'm not sure I could stand being in a conference hall with the Labour Party faithful, it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at the conference!

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 18:35

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 18:32

FT

Sorry about the format, but it is worth ploughing through. Sobering stuff.

Chancellor Rachel Reeves has been privately warned by the UK fiscal watchdog that its estimates for productivity are likely to be downgraded ahead of the Budget, making big tax rises more probable. Officials told the Financial Times that Reeves would blame the previous Conservative government for the expected downgrade, arguing that the Office for Budget Responsibility was giving a “historical” verdict on Tory rule from 2010 to 2024. “We don’t know precisely what they are going to say on productivity, but we have been given indications there will be a downgrade,” said one official.

People briefed on Budget preparations have warned that the total fiscal hole could amount to “tens of billions” of pounds — perhaps to £30bn. The OBR downgrade would make up a large portion of the gap. Analysts have predicted the OBR could weaken public finances by at least £9bn by downgrading its productivity estimates, which are seen as too optimistic at present. Although the Treasury insists Reeves will stick to her manifesto commitment not to increase income tax, value added tax or national insurance, the OBR downgrade could provide cover for her to change her mind. The official said: “The untold story of this Budget is the historical legacy of the Conservatives that nobody knew about. The OBR productivity downgrade could amount to half or three-quarters of the fiscal hole.” They added: “This doesn’t reflect on what’s happened since the election, but we are the ones picking up the bill.”

Sir Mel Stride, shadow chancellor, said: “Every time the numbers don’t add up, Rachel Reeves blames someone else. But the truth is the markets are losing confidence . . . Be in no doubt, any downgrade will be down to the chancellor’s economic mismanagement.” Reeves promised after her first Budget in October 2024 that she would not come back with more tax increases or extra borrowing. The OBR declined to comment. The Treasury did not immediately comment. The OBR at present assumes trend productivity growth will average 1.1 per cent over the medium term. Shaving 0.1 or 0.2 percentage points from that forecast would lead to a deterioration in the fiscal position of between £9bn and £18bn, according to Allan Monks, UK economist at JPMorgan.

The government already faced a £6bn shortfall after it retreated on cuts to welfare and winter fuel payments. If UK borrowing costs jump back to the highs reached early this month, it could knock several billion pounds more off Reeves’ fiscal room for manoeuvre. In March, Reeves left herself £9.9bn of headroom against her key fiscal rule, which requires her to fund day-to-day spending, excluding investment, entirely through tax revenues by 2029-30. Analysts expect Reeves to want to restore a buffer at least that big to mitigate the risk of future tax rises if the economy deteriorates further. That could put Labour’s manifesto tax pledges in jeopardy as income tax, VAT and employee NICs are by the far the biggest tax levers available to the chancellor. If Reeves did decide to ditch the tax pledge — currently excluded by the Treasury — one option would be to reverse twin reductions in employee national insurance made by Jeremy Hunt, chancellor under the last Conservative government, that cost the exchequer £20bn.

Another option would be to extend the freeze on personal income tax thresholds, which could deliver close to £10bn of revenue. The prospect of a productivity downgrade has been a persistent threat. Economists argue the OBR has long been too optimistic in its productivity outlook, by sticking with predictions of a rebound despite depressed growth readings. The OBR currently expects a bounceback in productivity growth to around half the pace that preceded the financial crisis. But Andrew Bailey, Bank of England governor, said in June that the central bank was “sceptical” about these predictions.

Basically she's killed growth and as such has cornered herself/dug her own grave

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 18:39

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 18:35

Basically she's killed growth and as such has cornered herself/dug her own grave

Yes, and Labour are unable to reform the welfare bill, as we have seen. She has nowhere to go.

It’s going to be a very cold winter…

Rivalled · 16/09/2025 18:43

So far we’ve had - reduce pension lump sum to £100k, pension reforms, reduce cash isa limit, a land value tax instead of council tax, a tax on the banks.

oh and a gimmicky 5 percent VAT off energy bills.

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 18:58

Rivalled · 16/09/2025 18:43

So far we’ve had - reduce pension lump sum to £100k, pension reforms, reduce cash isa limit, a land value tax instead of council tax, a tax on the banks.

oh and a gimmicky 5 percent VAT off energy bills.

Because they've failed to reduce energy bills, in fact bills have risen. Hence the gimmick of 5% off VAT on energy bills.

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 19:12

Sir Keir Starmer’s “one in, one out” migrant deal was dealt a major blow on Tuesday when the High Court blocked the deportation of a 25-year-old asylum seeker.

Mr Justice Sheldon granted a temporary last-minute injunction barring the removal of the Eritrean man on a flight to France at 9am on Wednesday after the Channel migrant claimed he would be “destitute” if returned to Paris.
The human rights claim – the first challenge to reach court over the UK-France deal – will cast fresh doubts on the scheme after two deportation flights failed to go ahead on Monday and Tuesday following legal challenges and protests.

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 19:14

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 19:12

Sir Keir Starmer’s “one in, one out” migrant deal was dealt a major blow on Tuesday when the High Court blocked the deportation of a 25-year-old asylum seeker.

Mr Justice Sheldon granted a temporary last-minute injunction barring the removal of the Eritrean man on a flight to France at 9am on Wednesday after the Channel migrant claimed he would be “destitute” if returned to Paris.
The human rights claim – the first challenge to reach court over the UK-France deal – will cast fresh doubts on the scheme after two deportation flights failed to go ahead on Monday and Tuesday following legal challenges and protests.

No doubt historic tweets from him will crop up again as they always do 🤣

What's the opposite of a Midas touch? A Starmer touch. Everything turns to shit.

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 19:20

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 19:14

No doubt historic tweets from him will crop up again as they always do 🤣

What's the opposite of a Midas touch? A Starmer touch. Everything turns to shit.

That’s it - spot on.

I think he’s either in denial - or he’s a massive bullshit artist who’s started to take his own product, and thinks the rest of us can’t see it.

TheNuthatch · 16/09/2025 19:20

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 19:12

Sir Keir Starmer’s “one in, one out” migrant deal was dealt a major blow on Tuesday when the High Court blocked the deportation of a 25-year-old asylum seeker.

Mr Justice Sheldon granted a temporary last-minute injunction barring the removal of the Eritrean man on a flight to France at 9am on Wednesday after the Channel migrant claimed he would be “destitute” if returned to Paris.
The human rights claim – the first challenge to reach court over the UK-France deal – will cast fresh doubts on the scheme after two deportation flights failed to go ahead on Monday and Tuesday following legal challenges and protests.

Now that's what I call a deterrent 😂😂
This singular bloke will be quite famous soon.

OP posts:
twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 19:20

TheNuthatch · 16/09/2025 19:20

Now that's what I call a deterrent 😂😂
This singular bloke will be quite famous soon.

🤣🤣

TheNuthatch · 16/09/2025 19:22

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 19:20

That’s it - spot on.

I think he’s either in denial - or he’s a massive bullshit artist who’s started to take his own product, and thinks the rest of us can’t see it.

I do actually think he believes all the twaddle that comes out of his mouth.
He looks genuinely astounded and horrified when anyone disagrees with him.

OP posts:
twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 19:25

TheNuthatch · 16/09/2025 19:22

I do actually think he believes all the twaddle that comes out of his mouth.
He looks genuinely astounded and horrified when anyone disagrees with him.

They've all been taking the Labour koolaid for too long 🙄

DancingFerret · 16/09/2025 19:28

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 18:35

Basically she's killed growth and as such has cornered herself/dug her own grave

I've been thinking that on and off for the past few months; every time real economists have commented negatively on her so-called strategies, but the wretched woman just keeps on rising zombie-like from her metaphoric grave.

Rivalled · 16/09/2025 19:34

I wish I could say I thought their new econ team would have any good ideas - but they’ve got nobody with business experience, only ‘right thinking’ academics etc who favour trying new ways to tax people…isn’t the field wide open for the tories etc to say we’re going to pull together a business group to advise on growth?

GabrielsOboe · 16/09/2025 19:35

My DH reliably tells me that two of the most popular chants at football stadiums around England currently are ‘Keir Starmer’s a wanker’, and ‘Starmer is a c’ - chanted to Katrina and the Waves smash hit ‘Walkin on Sunshine’...

Plantatreetoday · 16/09/2025 19:38

I think Reeves will raise stamp for properties at Maybe £500k plus
I think that’s why the budget is being announced in November and not October
ie to wait for Raynors flat purchase disaster to due down.

Then I think capital gains tax rates will be brought inline with income tax

Landlords will be required to pay council tax with no exemption for students or reductions for single occupation. A disaster for students

Id like to see a super road tax on big gas guzzling cars
Id like to see an increase in the hours required to work before UC eligibility

EasternStandard · 16/09/2025 19:43

Thanks @TheNuthatch!

twistyizzy · 16/09/2025 19:43

Still shit polling as expected, wonder how long before it hits single figures......
But it's OK peeps, they just need better comms!

Labour isn't working - Thread 9
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