Eternally single and fed up

[SafeSex]

How do people make sense of life when you're single and childless? I've been single for twenty years and, more immediately, haven't had a conversation with an adult since last Thursday and won't until tomorrow.

I just matched with someone on Tinder and they asked where I live. I'd already told him the rough area of London and said I didn't want to be more specific, at which point he asked me if I was one of those crazy women who thinks every man is a stalker (complete with emoji). I explained I was just being cautious but apparently he "didn't agree with how I date" and I was not for him. WTF??

I'm reasonably good at making friends, but practically all of them are in couples and most have kids so weekends and holidays tend to involve a lot of solitude.

I don't really know what I want from this thread. Solidarity, maybe. Please don't give me a list of ways to meet people or how to meet men as I can assure you I have tried all of them, several times.

I'm quite independent, both practically and emotionally, but this is getting me down.

Early fifties. I might try that - thanks for the suggestion.

Have already covered hobbies and groups! In the last 12 months I have done three different evening classes, two social groups and a bookclub, plus a few Meetup events. I've also made a new good friend (female) through work so I'm not anti-social.

Plenty of insights, but no actual change, even when I actively and consciously tried to avoid repeating patterns.

Same I miss it too

I was wondering if you’d be happy to share any insights @SafeSex to see if that could help posters give better advice, but no worries if not.

I thought you would have tried meet ups etc, it’s good you’ve had friendships come from it. I don’t think you have a strange attitude at all, and I think you made a good call re the guy asking where you live. It’s a necessity to have boundaries and standards with OLD (although I guess some flexibility within reason). I’d be mindful not to internalise these experiences. I am confident you are nowhere near hideous. Dating in London is really difficult, I have brilliant friends who’ve had similar experiences so it definitely isn’t just a you problem.

You're probably eternally single because you have healthy boundaries. Many men like women who they can control in one way or another so if you're mentally strong and healthy and want a relationship like that, your pickings are slim.

I’ve been married and divorced 3 times and brought 4 children up mostly alone so have spent 35 years broke, exhausted and pretty regretful. I’m 58 and my youngest is in 6th form will be off to Uni in a couple of years and I hope having a brilliant time. Although I also sometimes miss sex and companionship, the effects of abusive relationships has been really damaging for both me and my children and I really value my peace and freedom.

I guess what I’m just trying to say is that being single and childless isn’t necessarily the worst position to be in and not all those “happy couples” are as happy as they seem from the outside. Out of all the people I know I can think of only two long term married couples with children who are genuinely happy together.

It sounds like you are a lovely sociable person who has a lot to give and you deserve happiness, it just may not be found with a man or children.

People in a relationship who think they would be happier single are perfectly at liberty to feel that way, and to end their relationships to be single if they so choose. People are different and want different things. OP would like to be in a relationship and that is completely valid. It isn’t fair or helpful to tell her she has freedom “that most would be envious of”.

i was in a not particularly brilliant marriage with kids, and it was 100% better than being single in my 40s when every other person I know bar possibly one or two loose acquaintances is coupled up. It is absolutely soul destroying. And yes, I have plenty of fucking hobbies.

OP - it is shit and it’s nothing you are doing or not doing. Solidarity, and I wish you well.

I disagree that it’s a numbers game.

I met my current DP and ex on Hinge. I think a lot of people make the mistake of being quite vague and bland trying to appeal to as many people as possible, it rarely works and you end up attracting the worst men.

It’s better to match with 1 man that shares your interest in the medieval history than 30 men who like travelling and doggos.

Be a bit weird, it doesn’t matter if 99% of men aren’t interested in you since you’re looking for someone who you can be a bit weird with.

I have quite low self-esteem and "anxious attachment", probably due to a very emotionally (and, often, physically) absent father and quite critical parents. I didn't have very good body image (although now think I have a very good figure for my age) and was very late to have a physical relationship. I tend to attract, and be attracted to, men who are avoidant. On paper the guys I date are intelligent, sorted, solvent and have good jobs, but in practice they are emotionally stunted and unavailable. I don't go looking for men who are obviously unavailable (i.e. who already have a partner) or who are clearly unsuitable.

I do know other people are single - otherwise there would be no OLD - but certainly in my circle of friends and family no-one else seems to have particularly struggled to find a partner, or even a second partner after being widowed (in a few cases) or separating. One even managed to find a new partner while nursing her husband through a terminal illness, whereas even without any obvious baggage I can't even find a decent FWB situation.

Try lesbianism?
Or stop trying to meet people in normal ways. Become more abnormal and meet people that way. Travel everywhere by penny farthing, Start a local sex club, gatecrash weddings for fun and chat someone up for a laugh. Ditto funerals: be the beautiful mysterious stranger with black roses and a veil.
Take every free ticket to an event you can find, especially ones you're not interested in. Make up a new personality for each one.

Judgemental much? I met my partner on tinder. He's lovely. Nearly 3 years now.

Think yourself lucky. I think many many many women wish they were free and single. A relationship isn’t always what you’d hoped it would be. Sometimes it takes 20 years to realise or notice this. Then you’re in a situation where this isn’t what you wanted but you’re here now and to leave would be such hard work that you stay.

If I was single again I am 100% confident that I’d never want to be in a relationship again. I wonder how many women feel the same. I bet it’s a lot.

I actually find you quite patronising but there we go. I’m just being up front and not sugar coating anything as I believe you came on here for honest advice and support.
I think we’re all capable of finding love and companionship but for some it is more challenging and I’m just trying to get to the bottom of it. Are you very successful? I know this can be an obstacle for some reason. What about the men you don’t fancy on the first dates but have a good time with, could you perhaps meet up with them a few more times? I believe attraction can build over time.

Same here - 7 years for us.

I realise it's easier to have a "grass is greener" mentality and that it can be challenging to sustain a relationship over an extended period. However I don't see any of the people claiming that they envy my freedom and independence actually leaving their partners in order to become single. Forgetting children for a moment, unless you're in an abusive relationship there aren't a lot of things you can do when you're single that you can't also do in a couple. You can still see friends, pursue hobbies, do things on your own, etc. I have several married friends who don't always go on holiday with their spouse and who I see without their spouse.

I agree you have to get to know someone and trust me men hate internet dating as much as women..he has every right to ask the area you live in

He asked and I told him. He then asked again, and I didn't want to narrow it down further.

I didn’t mean to match with any old random people - you still have to have things in common. I was still quite selective but out of 800 + matches, I probably spoke to 50 and whittled it down to 6 I wanted to date, and found my partner in that 6. The other 5 were very nice too and I had a lovely time. I feel like I make a lot of effort to get to know people and knew from talking to them beforehand that we were going to get along so expected the dates to be good.

To be honest I think you dodged a bullet with him! OLD is a minefield and you have to wade through a lot of crap before you meet someone decent. They are out there but as someone has said before, it's a numbers game.

Those are very helpful insights that I’m sure will be useful to you in relationships in general. Sometimes we can have very rigid boundaries and standards as a self protection mechanism, I wonder if any of this is at play at all. If we hold beliefs about ourselves being unworthy/undesirable/strange then this can become a vicious cycle, as you can unconsciously behave in ways which confirm this. I think working on your self esteem is a very good idea, and seeing other women live whole and happy lives who also happen to be child free and single. Ideally this would be women you know in person, but there are online communities too. It doesn’t define you and it’s nothing to be ashamed of, but I can sense that you feel defective. It is very isolating not knowing anyone else in the same situation. But you aren’t alone in this.

It’s also totally okay to want to meet someone, it’s only human to crave intimate relationships and companionship. I think you should keep dating, but also make sure you do lots of things that interest you and bring you joy. Your worth is not determined by your relationship status or history. It’s cliche but if you value yourself, you will attract a man who values you - because he will know you won’t settle for less. Don’t give up.

Years ago I read this really good article which was a woman who had been single up til 40. There was a line in it that just said sometimes it's just bad luck.
I totally get it OP, especially the helpful suggestions from everyone endlessly. Sometimes it just doesn't happen, no matter what you do

You’re way better off than people in bad relationships but seems like you’re in a bit of a lonely place right now.

One suggestion I have is to be a bit more proactive arranging things to do with different friends. When you’re a relationship, you can get lazy about meeting up but still enjoy it and be glad someone else organised, esp something novel that makes the most of London’s incredible cultural offering like a new restaurant, exhibition or play. Another is to find a regular hobby group or person-centred voluntary role so you spend more of your free time with others (Pottery? Food bank? Climbing? Community garden?) They might end up as more meaningful routes to finding new friends (or even a partner) with have time to spare and common interests.

I was a dating coach for a few years.London was one of the worst places and where I found ladies had the most issues. Men just seemed to be very obnoxious and entitled. Tinder does have a lot of ‘spam’. High percentage of not serious men but it’s busier than other sites. I would plug away at the more serious paid for sites like e harmony and match. I probably went on about 30-40 dates from tinder in the three years I was on old and 3 from match. I met my husband on match. He wasn’t on any of the others because he thought ‘match’ was the only respectable one and he was scared of colleagues thinking he was on tinder.

For stuff to do I do some creative hobbies, and do a mix of things for holidays. Short trips by myself or with friends, longer trips I do as organised group holidays with Explore or similar. I go to the theatre by myself. I got myself some new single friends on the Bumble friendship section, which has really helped expand what I do socially. I do go days sometimes without speaking to anyone but I don’t really care about that, I’m pretty introverted.

This is good advice @LemonTwix

OP, the better life you lead, the happier you will be and you’ll give out a different vibe. If you acquired a few more friends who were available at weekends/holidays, life would probably feel quite different