Charlie Kirk dead

[Booneymil]

The last thread was taken down because of personal insults towards the man.

We should be able to have a thread about this news topic.

Report any insulting posts. Mumsnet can you please just delete the offending posts, instead of deleting the whole thread?

Thank you.

Charlie Kirk has died today. He was shot at a public talk that he was giving.

I doesn't (shouldn't) matter who he was, what he believed or what he said. Killing someone for saying what they want is the most basic form of intolerance for others. For freedom of speech and democracy.

This is also a reminder that every political, religious, social group has extremists.

If you look on social media - many people are celebrating. In the thread that was deleted many people were celebrating. The posts were being deleted quickly but included someone saying she hoped he felt pain

Maybe so. But shouting and insults are not debating, on either side. Winning a debate should involve proving someone wrong, tripping them up over their own logic etc, not drowning them out or ignoring what they're actually saying.

We don’t know who did it yet. It could be a disgruntled right winger.

I find it curious that so many people are very quick to blame the 'loony left' as they often put it but don't seem to be vocal about the 'evil right' when e.g. democrat politicians are murdered or civilians going about their daily lives at clinics. Hmmmm.

And he was adamant that a certain amount of sacrificial gundeaths every year are necessary in maintaining the preferred lax gun laws as they are. Not just tragic - it has elements of a Greek tragedy.

I don't want to live in a world where people are killed for articulating a view that doesn't chime with what's deemed 'acceptable'. The divisive, toxic, censorious nature of today's politics of individualism has sadly made these outcomes inevitable. The left/right divide divide has become so polarised, lacking in all shades of grey, that it bears no resemblance to any left/right politics I actually recognise.

Kirk's fate is a particular danger in a country where guns are in everyday circulation and mass shootings commonplace. But in a democratic society people have a right to their views (within legal constraints) and have a right articulate those views. Not everybody has to like them - I find Kirk's misogynistic ideas about women's bodies repellent - but if the automatic response is to silence those views then western society is in a lot of trouble. We are at risk of losing all our freedoms, not just the ones Kirk and his followers think appropriate.

Humans never, ever learn from history. These things have a highly uncomfortable way of coming full circle - and anyone engaging in these divisive political demonstrations and urging a #NoDebate culture has helped to make it happen.

We've seen where censorious cultures have led us in the past and it is never pretty. And if moderates and those previously on the left are turning to the right, we need to do some serious reflection on why this might be happening.

Trump has recently suggested someone should have their citizenship stripped for speaking out in disagreement with him. You can see that those around him are terrified of losing their jobs if they so much as look at him the wrong way. He’s very much not a proponent of free speech.

@oliverbabish
I don't know, but if the situaion were reversed I think we'd all be annoyed at a thread on the persons death being used that way.

Well that's what I meant. It could literally be anyone. But I think we can safely assume it is to do with his views as that is what he is known for.

Simply untrue. The FAA is very clear that all hires must meet the same threshold. It is stupid and blinkered to think they would drop aviation safety standards to look woke.

The identity of the assassin is not known yet, so a bit early to blame the left.

I think it’s you who’s missing the point.

So many offensive posts. Whether or not you completely supported or disagreed with his views, he had a valid opinion and was murdered for that. That’s a tragedy and a very scary thing. It’s evil
“I disagree so I get to kill you!” That’s just unacceptable.

I’m sorry did you just use ‘loony’ left and then ‘evil’ right? That is frightening

Trump is dangerous. #NoDebate is dangerous. It's that kind of censorious culture which has led to the political impasse we're in now. It isn't a question of 'sides'. The less moderate factions of both left and right detest each other but seem to have no recognition that they're simply looking into the mirror.

I don't think the murder of Charlie will dissuade people in the USA from owning guns, if anything they will probably feel their argument that they need them for protection has been validated.

If you can’t see how this attitude is just as damaging and problematic as that which you accuse the “left” of having, there is no hope

@BananaPeels no need to apologize my dear. God bless you.

No, she’s quoting someone who said the loony left killed Kirk. We just don’t know anything yet.

Well, given his political views, that does seem the most obvious person.

I haven’t heard about or verified this.
Disagreeing should be allowed. To say anything else is absurd. It can still be respectful without murdering the person you disagree with (or getting them kicked out the country)

there are people who are pleased. Gloating even.

Those sick fucks need to be outed to their employers. Sure it will happen and they call right wingers thick.

I disagreed with a lot of what he said but I defend his right to say it
Very sad for his wife and children