Charlie Kirk dead

[Booneymil]

The last thread was taken down because of personal insults towards the man.

We should be able to have a thread about this news topic.

Report any insulting posts. Mumsnet can you please just delete the offending posts, instead of deleting the whole thread?

Thank you.

Charlie Kirk has died today. He was shot at a public talk that he was giving.

I have not mentioned Trump nor do I support his politics.

Sorry I missed the point - apologies @estergreenwood63

I can’t stand all these horrible terms of ‘loony’ and ‘evil’. It’s just awful. I despair honestly here days

Sadly you can see on here that’s not the case. The reaction will ramp up rhetoric. People can be decent even if they disagree with someone’s views but not everyone is.

Oh it’s not deranged, it just is incompatible with your ideology. Stating a person is mad because they don’t agree politically with you is a sign of not believing in free speech, often employed by totalitarian states.

This is a war against a terrorist leadership with a stated aim to wipe out the Jewish state of Israel, a state which was invaded by terrorists, women children and men were brutally tortured and slaughtered in cold blood, where hostages were taken, some of whom were later killed, others remain captive. Hamas knew Israel would have no choice but to retaliate. Hamas have deliberately hidden in places where mass civilian casualties would occur is attacked (likewise we’d it’s weapon storage). What would you have liked Israel to do, invite them round for a chat over tea?

Hamas knew what the fall out would be, the attacks were specifically designed to provoke the wrath of Israel, the more women and children die, Hamas knows the more people will be outraged, they have no interest in stopping it.

Israel are stuck between a rock as nd a hard place. Keeping bombing to defend itself, or give up and risk being attacked by people who want to wipe Israel and the people in it off the face of the Earth.

Yes it is terrible - war is terrible. Investigations need to occur regarding the legality of some of Israel’s tactics and people need to be held accountable if found guilty by due process. This does not excuse people supporting and waving the flag of a terrorist run area. One with appalling human rights. People have been manipulated by terrorists into supporting a regime with some of the worst women’s rights, a regime which is homophobic. A regime which has zero religious tolerance. A regime which has tried to use its women and children as human shields.

so no I’m not deranged. I have just retained my ability to think critically

I didn’t agree with 95% of what CK said but I respect his right to free speech. I enjoyed watching this speeches. He generally came across as articulate and charismatic. it’s a sad day for his family and friends.

we must all stand up for free speech but the UK is terrible for trying to cancel those who have ‘controversial views’- Gary linekar, JKR, Graham Linehan, Sally Rooney, kneecap, protesters against the prescription of PA as a terrorist organisation.

Actually many of his positions had little to do with his faith and where there was overlap he made a point of providing non-religious arguments as well.

There are a lot of crass and unpleasant people online. Look at any news article on Channel drownings - when children die on small boat crossings - and see how many people laugh and gloat in the comments. The internet is crawling with loathsome commenters.

I disagree with everything this man represents. I wish people like him wouldnt exist, I wish they didn't have access to microphones and I wish they were not going around campuses trying to poison young minds.

However, i do not wish death on anyone. And I won't celebrate anyone's death. I don't know what the motivation was, but if it was political then we are fucked. If YouTubers are getting assassinated for political reasons. There is no hope in the world.

He was a big supporter of gun rights and believed that annual gun deaths are worth it.

I didn’t say that you did or mean to imply it? Apologies if it seemed so.

He does that to try and keep his child safe (despite knowing the risks involved), as the child would be in danger because of the fathers religious beliefs..with Kirk it was the other way around, he wanted his child to suffer because of her father's beliefs. Anybody who thinks that forcing a child to give birth is the right thing to do, needs professional help and/or jailtime because that's disgusting on every level.

This gloating is disgusting. The only death I would be pleased about is that Southport killer or someone of his ilk.

I wonder if the gloaters have a cross-over with the foul pieces of excrement who were donating to a GoFundMe for the man who stabbed the girl on the bus in Charlotte.

I'm not sure about that to be honest. After every terrorist attack, almost immediately the narrative shifts to how the 'far right' will react. Our politicians can't seem to discuss Islamist terror without the bolted on "and the far right".

Maybe on the street, you've experienced something different, talking to individuals, but I cannot see what you're seeing if we're talking mainstream media.

I honestly wouldn’t feel that way. His legacy are his views and his belief in debating. I think the difference is that some of his views were quite extreme, and talking about some of them feels unsavoury because they were unsavoury. I’m trying to think of an equivalent view on the left with regards to his view, for example, on rape and abortion but I’m struggling to right now - that doesn’t mean that there isn’t one though. My point being - I would absolutely discuss an awful left-wing view in the light of the same happening to a left-wing personality. We should not sanitise.

It was Rosie O Donnell. He doesn’t have the power to do it and may well pass it off as a ‘joke’ but he said it essentially because she is a well known critic of him.

Just so tragic. He was such a believer in respectful debate, I am heartbroken for his young wife and those tiny children who won't remember their father. The far left is the most hate-filled section of the political strata, by a long way.

Gun violence is out of control in America. Politicians from the left and right have been killed. It is insane that they worship gun ownership

Agree with this. I watched a lot of his stuff and he would often say, ‘do you want the faith based answer or the philosophical/political answer?’ (Or words to that effect.) No matter how radical the opinion, he always allowed them to say their piece and then he’d dismantle the argument using his own logic. I believe he genuinely wanted open debate and he obviously studied the views of his opponents too. That’s a very rare quality.

He clearly knew there were credible threats against his life but chose to keep going on campuses and not surround himself with bullet proof glass.

Why shouldn't it be a casual conversation? Many of us long for the day that abortion has no higher taboo than a hip replacement surgery.

No one should be ashamed to talk about it. Stop trying to shame women and stigmatise abortion.

But that’s the thing. I love that people like him exist. He’s the check and balance. He’s the person advocating the other side. He’s the person giving an alternative viewpoint. We need those more than ever.

doesn’t mean you have to change your mind. Doesn’t mean he’s right. But a fully functioning democratic society needs differing viewpoints. It needs robust debate. Wishing people you don’t agree with to not exist just creates a massive vacuum where only the ‘correct’ view is acceptable and we all must believe the same things.

I honestly would loved to have debated with him.

Not on here, thankfully. But saying that people are is a good way of deflecting the discussion.

Desperately sad for his wife and young children.

think worth also remembering that democrat legislators were shot in June, with two people dying and two horrifically injured and it got nowhere near the same coverage

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_shootings_of_Minnesota_legislators

I don't know which country you're in, but here in the UK we certainly do restrict women's choices to do what they like with their body.

It is a criminal offence if a woman has an abortion after 23 weeks and 6 days unless for reasons of severe fetal abnormality that it would mean hat if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.

Other European countries also have similar limits. In Germany and France it is 12 weeks. In Italy it is 13 weeks and Spain is 14 weeks. In the Netherlands it is 22 weeks.

The culture of the Palestinians and what’s actually happening there are two separate issues. You can abhor what their government is doing and still defend their right to exist as a nation. How is that any different to what we’re discussing here ? Kirk held some abhorrent views, but he didn’t deserve to die for them.

@MyHeartyCoralSnail "Stating a person is mad because they don’t agree politically with you is a sign of not believing in free speech"

Also @MyHeartyCoralSnail "I’m not deranged. I have just retained my ability to think critically"

You're doubtless seeing the problem here?

And, for good measure, Israel is in no way "bombing to defend itself". It is demonstrably, clearly, and without reservation committing genocide.

robust debates - fine. Difference of opinion - fine
lies and conspiracy theories denying facts are neither of those.
i don’t respect Nazis or the Klan as having differing views to mine.