Help with ds ehcp again/amended ehcp

[Imagoodperson999]

So the LA have made changes to ds ehcp. They are not clear to me . I don't get it and i don't even know if it makes a difference. And i can't see if it helps with choosing a secondary school.

Anyway im going to copy and paste the new ehcp just section F on this post. Then im going to find the older section F and post that on my 2nd post.

I was hoping someone can help me compare them. Please bare in mind that I have learning difficulties as well . So things that seem clear to others may not be to me.

So from amended EHCP section F

(F) Special Educational Provision above quality first teaching.
Provision

· Max will join a speech and language group run by the speech and language therapist for a block of therapy to work on language, speech and communication skills. Outcomes and recommendations should also be implemented by school.
· Lego therapy would be a good way to help Max in his communication with peers in a structured session. This builds on his love of Lego.

Strategies

Max needs an appropriately differentiated curriculum. Present and give information at a language level he can understand. For example:
12 / 18
· Break down instructions into small, manageable parts or chunks.
· Before giving instructions to Max, call his name, and make sure you have his full attention and that he is looking at you.
· Model/demonstrate what Max has to do before he starts a task.
· Use short, simple instructions, and slow down when talking to Max. Try to break down instructions into short, manageable chunks (rather than “Do x, then do y”, just give one part at a time).
· Allow processing time. Then repeat instructions to Max if needed, making sure you repeat the instruction the same each time
· Use visual support (e.g. natural gesture, facial expression, pictures, symbols, written word) alongside instructions and conversations.

Vocabulary
· Develop a basic communication board with the words he needs to ask for items in class, e.g. pencil sharpener, rubber, toilet, drink, help, finished, break. Have it on the desk and point to it when communicating with Max to encourage him to use it too.

· Pre-teach key or topic vocabulary before Max comes across the words in the lesson.
· Use a consistent structure to explore word meanings and sounds. Think about the first sound of the word, how many syllables, a word it rhymes with, an action for the word, a picture or drawing for the word, use it in a sentence, and give some information about its meaning. For example, a mind map or “Word Wizard” (Word Aware programme).
· When Max has difficulties retrieving a word, prompt him using these categories that he has already covered, e.g. give him the first sound of the word, or ask him to act it out.
· Review the words that have been provided by putting them in a “word pot” or “word bank” on Max’s table, on a word wall in the classroom, or in a vocabulary book.
· Where possible present vocabulary to Max using a multi- sensory approach. Using pictures, symbols, demonstrations.
· Have Max think about words in categories. Play word association games in a small group (e.g. each person has to name something that relates to cars or has to identify the ‘odd one out’ for a list of three).
· Encourage Max to say when he does not understand a word. He can tell the teaching assistant, who can note the word down. Max can collect words that he has ‘captured’ to help expand his vocabulary knowledge.

Asking for help
· Encourage Max to ask for help if he does not know what to do. Max could be provided with a visual to help him know how to make specific requests for help. Encourage and praise asking for help in the whole class.

Access to small group work to practise Max’s social communication and conversation skills.
· Encourage small group work or naturally occurring small groups when possible in lessons, or in the playground of no more than 3 children in a group, where Max has to engage with his peers to complete the task, e.g. with opportunities to engage in “role specific” play, for example Lego Therapy, where children are either an “architect”, “engineer” or “builder”. The use of roles encourages children to interact with each other to achieve a shared goal.
· Play games at home that encourage interaction such as passing on objects, exploring together, snap or lotto.
· Give Max visual cues of good conversational skills and refer to them during 1:1 conversation, e.g. “eye contact”, or “talk about the same thing”, asking a question, saying something about what the person he is talking with has said, taking turns in conversation.
· Talkabout” or a social skills intervention may be helpful.
13 / 18
· Play games or activities which develop Max’s abilities to stay on topic during conversation, e.g. category games where you take it in turns to pick an object in the same category.
· Give Max a visual prompt you can use to show him when he goes “off topic” when answering a question. For example, a picture of a train and a track. The train can move along the track whilst you are talking or playing a game, and when Max gives an irrelevant answer or goes off topic, use the visual support to take the train off the track.
· For Max to use visual support (e.g. a narrative or talking prompt) to help him structure his news clearly e.g. to explain what he has done at the weekend or in the holidays. A talking prompt could also be used in talk partner work in class to help Max talk with a peer about a question the class is discussing

Beginning to develop Max’s explaining skills

· Read lots of stories with Max – these can be both with or without visuals and ask him questions based on the story after this, such as ‘who’ ‘what happened’ ’where’ ‘how’ and ‘what can the characters do? what is going to happen next?’ and ‘why’.
· Encourage Max to expand on his answers in conversation, by using open-ended questions, such as “tell me more”, or by giving him more time to add information.
· Use sets of pictures of familiar sequences (e.g. getting ready for school, growing a flower): put the pictures in order and talk about what happens ‘first, next, last’. Support Max work towards using this structure and vocabulary to talk about real events or to share his news and ask him what he thinks might happen next in the story.
· Try using visual support such as Black sheep press ‘Why, because’ cards to help Max explain his reasoning when answering simple ‘why?’ questions.
· Discuss different real-life scenarios using pictures and objects in a 1:1 or small group setting. Think about what might happen, why and what if. Max may benefit from structured intervention to target this, for example “Mr Goodguess” or Talkabout School/Home ( Black Sheep Press resources).
· School will give Max a piece of work/picture/item to take home to talk about with his Mum. This will help Max to generate ideas and remember an event in school.

Speech
· Provide Max with clear production of words he finds it hard to say, ensuring that he is able to see the mouth of the speaker to help him produce the sounds correctly and with slight emphasis on the word e.g. “I want soo” yes “you want two”. Can you hear that ”t” sound? Praise Max if he tries to copy the correct production or correct himself.

Arrangements for review and evaluation

Max can be re-referred to the Speech & Language service for review once these outcomes have been achieved.

Old section F will be added to my 2nd post

Go to the meeting. Ask them to explain what you don’t understand. Ask about the discrepancies. Explain your worries. State the amendments required. Follow up with an email.

Don’t rely on the LA to tell you what to look for in schools. They will steer you in the way they want rather than in the way that is best for DS.

There are very limited reasons the LA can refuse to name your preferred placement.

I appreciate you may still want to, but, technically, you don’t need to tell the LA your preferred placement by the 19th September. Technically, they should hold a phase transfer review in the autumn term of Y6. As part of this process you will then get the opportunity to state your preferred placement. Even if you decide to state your preferred placement by the 19th September, you can change your mind following the phase transfer review meeting when you receive the proposed amendments (the amendment notice).

It actually isn’t that uncommon for LAs to maintain as is rather than amend following annual reviews, especially when LAs act unlawfully so often by not amending even when it is required. Some LAs have even unlawfully adopted blanket policies of not amending unless phase transfer or some other significant event occurs. Completely unlawful.

I have bern thoroughly it all today. And it wasn't what I thought so it was me who got it all wrong.

I could write diwn the concerns I have .

Regarding year 4 its never beed said that max was entitlement to a 121. year 3, 5, and will be year 6 hes had an unofficial 121. In year 4 they basically went to the other extreme and gave him next to no help. I mean I can say I don't want similar to happen for year 7 but I dont think I can say much about 121 side of it

What does acronyms mean?

Potential schools will be sent the EHCP and they will respond to that to say whether or not they can meet your son’s needs. That’s why it is important that the EHCP is accurate.
The LA have a duty to consult schools you request, regardless of whether they feel it’s appropriate or not. Schools then respond as above.

If you can’t find your copies of EHCPs from all the previous years, ask the LA to send them to you. Ask for a printed copy if that’s easier. It might take longer as they will have to post them to you.

Thats why it feels so hopeless and pointless because no matter what they are only going to tell me what they want me to hear. And not advice on anything in an honest way it feels like it would be to suit their agenda. Its like they basically don't give a toss about ds.

I’m basing my comments on the LA SEND Team I work for, and we amend the vast majority, it’s very unusual for us not to. It does make it tricky to keep up with timescales but we do our best. We also share our direct lines so parents can contact us via phone.

It isn’t hopeless. The meeting will help you understand and put your points across.

@Thegladstonebag I am pleased to hear your LA is very, very unusual in amending most times. It isn’t the case nationally, sadly.

Thats the part that's always confused me . Senico at primary has said look at mainstream they are right for him. His needs are not complex enough for sen school and will mess things up for him mentally and socially that has always felt more important than the academic side of things because I feel that matters more as I want him to be happy.

But when I have contacted mainstream schools sencos and said ds is working at year 1 level. They have said they doubt they will be able to reach his needs. And that's before they see the ehcp . Which is much more depth than me saying hes working at year 1 level. So surely after seeing the ehcp they are even more likely to say no.

I have been swinging myself in circles for weeks now.

Yes do this if you want them printed they may be able to get you to collect them (if you live closer and then it won't take too long?). I know this would depend on the area though and your distance and travel means.

Also @Imagoodperson999 as said above by pp please email after the meeting (type up all your notes and just write something like just confirming this is what we went through today). Then make sure they email back and say yes, you can ask chatgpt to help with writing it if you need. Even if all you do is explain your concerns like you've done here that's useful to here their perspectives about how mentally and socially you don't think a SEN secondary is good but academically you feel mainstream won't have the ability to give him the support he needs. I'd also talk about the autumn phase review that will be happening soon and maybe bring up how you feel in the updated ECHP he needs an offical 1-1 stated so that when secondaries read it they can say whether that's possible for them or not.

Acronyms are just SEND or SENDIAS or any of the agencies that use them, often in meetings staff understandably just say them without explaining it (just because they use them a lot and sometimes you'll be sitting there very confused by all the terms in my experience). So I just ask because it makes my life easier.

I have already done the printing. Thats how i managed to compare today.

I may have to do it the other way and ask them to email me a confirmation of what we spoke about. Because I won't take it in well. I cant write notes because I can't listen and write I will miss stuff even if I write 2 words.

I can write a few notes to take with me regarding my concerns.

I think your totally right about the 121 thing I think im going to explain that mr s is his unofficial 121 and explain when that was taken away in year 4 ds went totally down hill . Since the unofficial 121 was given back in year 5 ds got much better in his self and in his learning.. but I think they are just going to tell me theres no funding for a 121 in secondary. I will say it regardless but I dont think they would agee.

Ask them to get someone in to take notes then (a PA or receptionist) and also ask permission to record the conversation, or just do it secretly. That way you can make notes afterwards and replay it back. I agree with what you said - write down all your concerns before in detail and make sure you tick each of them off.

Yes still say you think he needs an offical 1-1 considering how helpful Mr s has been. That way you've at least voiced your concerns and if you email them after yo say what was discussed they'll be a record. Also if it does go into the ECHP then hopefully secondaries who cannot do that will say and he won't end up at a mainstream which can't cope with thar and then he doesn't progress as well. Then it might also point out whether mainstream or sen school is better. Hopefully they provide it for him in secondary. I know funding is tight but he deserves the best, you definitely work really hard to get him what he needs.

So my questions could be is a mainstream setting right for max ?

If so why? If not why not?

Is,a sen school suitable for max if so why. If not why not.

If mainstream is suitable how will they reach his needs its says in ehcp a LSA/Ta needs to available in the classroom. Secondary schools do not have LSA/TA in mainstream secondary school so hows that going to work unless hes allocated a 121.

How can I be sure be would get the help he nedds in mainstream abd it doesn't get withdrawn like in year 4 .

How can I be sure max is not going to get into trouble put in dfl or in trouble with SALT/teachers . For things linked with his asd.

Should I mention i want moderate learning difficulties to be looked into ? Or should I just leave that and tell senco at primary school..

Thank you. Recoding is a great idea. I just hope no one rings me when im recording 😭

Great questions, I'd ask all of them. I'm not too sure on whether to mention moderate learning difficulties but I'm sure other educated posters on her can let you know. I think it cannot hurt to bring it up, bit take this with a pinch of salt. You're doing so well for him, it must be exhausting but it's all for his benefit.

People on here have helped me loads over the weeks months even. And have been really patient and understanding. I ofen go in circles because it either doesnt sink in. Or something will be said and it undoes things that I thought were sorted. Or I will come bsck and say well senco said xyz . LA said ABC . Sendia said 123. Then my but what ifs. So I probably do send people mad. But I feel like I need to explore and understand from all angles.

I also find it so hard to understand why I have to fight the very people that should be helping children like ds . I wont ever understood why they don't put the child's best interest first . I also trust to easily because I dont get why people/professionals would give me reason not to trust them. Dont even know if that mskes sense.

It makes so much sense and I'm the same, I only got savvy after so many professionals failed me and I saw them failing others for so many reasons. Sometimes they have to prioritise other cases (not okay, but lack of funding or training) or they just act unbothered by what the child actually wants or will be better for them, not just for SEN issues but so much. If parents don't have detailed knowledge of the systems (which the staff won't tell them about) how can they help their children. The duty should be on professionals to do it and we should be able to trust them to do so. I'm hoping with more media attention over the years, better training and funding will occur so that it's not about whether a school can afford a 1-1 ta for a kid who needs it, it's just they need it well get it. The same for safeguarding, wellbeing and sen. Take a break, get some sleep and get ready for the meeting, let us know how it goes. Also never think you make people mad, it's good to know and understand all perspectives and the staff should be explaining it to you, you want to do the best for him and you show that by always asking questions. He's lucky to have you.

I suppose at least this meeting has made me get up at s decent time dress and sort myself out properly 😅

You ensure DS gets the support he needs by ensuring the EHCP is fit for purpose. The provision he needs must be detailed, specified and quantified in F.

LSA/TAs can be provided in the secondary, including 1:1. But you need to ensure the provision is detailed, specified and quantified in F. At the minute, it is too vague and woolly.

I wouldn’t rely on the LA’s opinion about mainstream vs special/specialist school.

The LA can’t tell you DS can’t go to mainstream. If that is your preference, there is a right to a mainstream education unless it is incompatible with the efficient education of others and no reasonable steps could be taken to avoid that. So if you want mainstream, suitability doesn’t come into it. Although this is a right to a mainstream education rather than a specific mainstream.

You can ask about an updated EP assessment. The LA may not agree though, sadly.

So the most important part is section F . Yes I know they can't say ds cant go to mainstream. I just want him to go a school that's best for him regardless of the type.

If I can at least try and gey them to add some changes that would be something.

Also if im able to look into moderate learning difficulties. I wounder if that would trigger a new /updated EHCP

Can I tell them thr current ehcp is to wooly or does that come across as rude

F is very important. It is the section that includes the special educational provision DS must receive and it is enforceable if it is written correctly. Section B is also very important because the provision in F is to meet the needs in B. If section B is poor, section F will be too.

You can tell the LA the wording is too vague and woolly and that it must be detailed, specified and quantified. That isn’t rude. It is a fact.

The EHCP is based on evidence. If there is new evidence, including evidence which stated DS has moderate learning difficulties (it should go into more detail than just state that e.g. it should state what needs that means DS has and the support he requires), it can be used to inform the EHCP.

Ah ok I don't think i will be able to unscramble section b now. I will try my best at the meeting

You can certainly ask about an updated EP report. Also ask about Autism Advisory Teacher support, as some of the needs are related to ASD.

Any new reports would then need to be included in Sections B and F so that prospective schools have all the information they need to make decisions.

I got back from. Meeting about half an hour ago. My brain has gone to mush. Hopefully my recording has worked so I can listen in a bit

In a nut shell her opinion is I should look at sen schools considering the level hes working at. Or possibly mainstream with a resource centre thingy I forgot the proper name. But she seemed to lean more towards the sen. But she also added if a school comes back saying they can't reach his needs the LA then say what do you need to enable you to reach his needs

What I didn't know is when I put down my choices of school. The LA also look at local schools and add them to the list . So they could name a school that I never even put down

I just listened to the recording. Omg sound so common 😭.

It definitely feels much clearer now . Although I am thinking whats the point if LA add their own to the list.

That's seems like a good plan, let's see what the schools say they can do. On the echp did they make any final edits or change anything you mentioned? What questions did you ask them?