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Help with ds ehcp again/amended ehcp

208 replies

Imagoodperson999 · 06/08/2025 12:25

So the LA have made changes to ds ehcp. They are not clear to me . I don't get it and i don't even know if it makes a difference. And i can't see if it helps with choosing a secondary school.

Anyway im going to copy and paste the new ehcp just section F on this post. Then im going to find the older section F and post that on my 2nd post.

I was hoping someone can help me compare them. Please bare in mind that I have learning difficulties as well . So things that seem clear to others may not be to me.

So from amended EHCP section F

(F) Special Educational Provision above quality first teaching.
Provision

· Max will join a speech and language group run by the speech and language therapist for a block of therapy to work on language, speech and communication skills. Outcomes and recommendations should also be implemented by school.
· Lego therapy would be a good way to help Max in his communication with peers in a structured session. This builds on his love of Lego.

Strategies

Max needs an appropriately differentiated curriculum. Present and give information at a language level he can understand. For example:
12 / 18
· Break down instructions into small, manageable parts or chunks.
· Before giving instructions to Max, call his name, and make sure you have his full attention and that he is looking at you.
· Model/demonstrate what Max has to do before he starts a task.
· Use short, simple instructions, and slow down when talking to Max. Try to break down instructions into short, manageable chunks (rather than “Do x, then do y”, just give one part at a time).
· Allow processing time. Then repeat instructions to Max if needed, making sure you repeat the instruction the same each time
· Use visual support (e.g. natural gesture, facial expression, pictures, symbols, written word) alongside instructions and conversations.

Vocabulary
· Develop a basic communication board with the words he needs to ask for items in class, e.g. pencil sharpener, rubber, toilet, drink, help, finished, break. Have it on the desk and point to it when communicating with Max to encourage him to use it too.

· Pre-teach key or topic vocabulary before Max comes across the words in the lesson.
· Use a consistent structure to explore word meanings and sounds. Think about the first sound of the word, how many syllables, a word it rhymes with, an action for the word, a picture or drawing for the word, use it in a sentence, and give some information about its meaning. For example, a mind map or “Word Wizard” (Word Aware programme).
· When Max has difficulties retrieving a word, prompt him using these categories that he has already covered, e.g. give him the first sound of the word, or ask him to act it out.
· Review the words that have been provided by putting them in a “word pot” or “word bank” on Max’s table, on a word wall in the classroom, or in a vocabulary book.
· Where possible present vocabulary to Max using a multi- sensory approach. Using pictures, symbols, demonstrations.
· Have Max think about words in categories. Play word association games in a small group (e.g. each person has to name something that relates to cars or has to identify the ‘odd one out’ for a list of three).
· Encourage Max to say when he does not understand a word. He can tell the teaching assistant, who can note the word down. Max can collect words that he has ‘captured’ to help expand his vocabulary knowledge.

Asking for help
· Encourage Max to ask for help if he does not know what to do. Max could be provided with a visual to help him know how to make specific requests for help. Encourage and praise asking for help in the whole class.

Access to small group work to practise Max’s social communication and conversation skills.
· Encourage small group work or naturally occurring small groups when possible in lessons, or in the playground of no more than 3 children in a group, where Max has to engage with his peers to complete the task, e.g. with opportunities to engage in “role specific” play, for example Lego Therapy, where children are either an “architect”, “engineer” or “builder”. The use of roles encourages children to interact with each other to achieve a shared goal.
· Play games at home that encourage interaction such as passing on objects, exploring together, snap or lotto.
· Give Max visual cues of good conversational skills and refer to them during 1:1 conversation, e.g. “eye contact”, or “talk about the same thing”, asking a question, saying something about what the person he is talking with has said, taking turns in conversation.
· Talkabout” or a social skills intervention may be helpful.
13 / 18
· Play games or activities which develop Max’s abilities to stay on topic during conversation, e.g. category games where you take it in turns to pick an object in the same category.
· Give Max a visual prompt you can use to show him when he goes “off topic” when answering a question. For example, a picture of a train and a track. The train can move along the track whilst you are talking or playing a game, and when Max gives an irrelevant answer or goes off topic, use the visual support to take the train off the track.
· For Max to use visual support (e.g. a narrative or talking prompt) to help him structure his news clearly e.g. to explain what he has done at the weekend or in the holidays. A talking prompt could also be used in talk partner work in class to help Max talk with a peer about a question the class is discussing

Beginning to develop Max’s explaining skills

· Read lots of stories with Max – these can be both with or without visuals and ask him questions based on the story after this, such as ‘who’ ‘what happened’ ’where’ ‘how’ and ‘what can the characters do? what is going to happen next?’ and ‘why’.
· Encourage Max to expand on his answers in conversation, by using open-ended questions, such as “tell me more”, or by giving him more time to add information.
· Use sets of pictures of familiar sequences (e.g. getting ready for school, growing a flower): put the pictures in order and talk about what happens ‘first, next, last’. Support Max work towards using this structure and vocabulary to talk about real events or to share his news and ask him what he thinks might happen next in the story.
· Try using visual support such as Black sheep press ‘Why, because’ cards to help Max explain his reasoning when answering simple ‘why?’ questions.
· Discuss different real-life scenarios using pictures and objects in a 1:1 or small group setting. Think about what might happen, why and what if. Max may benefit from structured intervention to target this, for example “Mr Goodguess” or Talkabout School/Home ( Black Sheep Press resources).
· School will give Max a piece of work/picture/item to take home to talk about with his Mum. This will help Max to generate ideas and remember an event in school.

Speech
· Provide Max with clear production of words he finds it hard to say, ensuring that he is able to see the mouth of the speaker to help him produce the sounds correctly and with slight emphasis on the word e.g. “I want soo” yes “you want two”. Can you hear that ”t” sound? Praise Max if he tries to copy the correct production or correct himself.

Arrangements for review and evaluation

Max can be re-referred to the Speech & Language service for review once these outcomes have been achieved.

Old section F will be added to my 2nd post

OP posts:
Tippexy · 09/08/2025 22:19

flawlessflipper · 09/08/2025 11:35

Even 3 years ago it was more commonly used than it is now. For example, this document from Sheffield Children’s Hospital in 2022 uses this phrasing. (To clarify, the link is from the hospital, the document itself from the LA.)

Plus there may have been some older evidence used. Or some older evidence summarised in more recent evidence.

I am not saying DS doesn’t have moderate learning difficulties. I am saying the use of moderate language disorder may not be incorrect.

Edited

I’d beg to differ on it being hugely more popular a phrase three years ago, but I am saying it would be worth OP’s while to go back to the source and see exactly what was diagnosed and by whom.

flawlessflipper · 09/08/2025 22:23

OP, you can do it however works for you best. Whatever way you do it, you will need to comment on the proposed amendments and anything that needs amending.

Feel free or disagree all you want @Tippexy. Having read thousands of EHCPs and reports from across the country, I stand by what I said. Just to point out, I didn’t say ‘hugely more popular’. I merely said ‘more commonly used’. I didn’t say how much more.

As I also said, I am not saying DS doesn’t have moderate learning difficulties. I am saying the use of moderate language disorder may not be incorrect.

TheLivelyViper · 09/08/2025 22:26

Imagoodperson999 · 09/08/2025 21:59

I have managed to print of both ehcp the original and the proposed..

I have some heigh lighters. But im not sure how to do it. Do I just heigh light the bits I'm not happy with and write a note saying why ?

Or do I heigh light it by showing the bits they have changed that they said they haven't.

I also feel like they are changing wording/altering so his needs look less so that its more likely mainstream will say yes to saying they can reach his needs. Is there anywsy i can say that withiut coming across like im accusing them.

Do both in different colours I would say. And so so notes on things they've changed where they said they haven't and also areas where you feel they are wrong on the support he needs.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Imagoodperson999 · 09/08/2025 23:18

Tippexy · 09/08/2025 22:19

I’d beg to differ on it being hugely more popular a phrase three years ago, but I am saying it would be worth OP’s while to go back to the source and see exactly what was diagnosed and by whom.

ASD was diagnosed via ADOS
I found a report called speech and language therapy profile. This was in 2021 I done a screen shot because I was messaging up trying to type it. It mentions moderate language disorder. I cant find anything about moderate learning difficulties.

Help with ds ehcp again/amended  ehcp
OP posts:
Imagoodperson999 · 09/08/2025 23:27

flawlessflipper · 09/08/2025 22:23

OP, you can do it however works for you best. Whatever way you do it, you will need to comment on the proposed amendments and anything that needs amending.

Feel free or disagree all you want @Tippexy. Having read thousands of EHCPs and reports from across the country, I stand by what I said. Just to point out, I didn’t say ‘hugely more popular’. I merely said ‘more commonly used’. I didn’t say how much more.

As I also said, I am not saying DS doesn’t have moderate learning difficulties. I am saying the use of moderate language disorder may not be incorrect.

I cant find anything that mentions moderate learning difficulties. So I think its likely to be moderate language disorder.

I would like to get moderate learning difficulties looked into though

OP posts:
Imagoodperson999 · 09/08/2025 23:36

TheLivelyViper · 09/08/2025 22:26

Do both in different colours I would say. And so so notes on things they've changed where they said they haven't and also areas where you feel they are wrong on the support he needs.

Yeah im thinking something like that. I might also name the paragraph and explain the problem with that paragraph.

I really wanted to get it done today but kt tool me over 3hrs to get my printer working . Adult ds done ut in the end. Then he was here for a visit. So I couldn't do it . Now my brain is mush. So I have to do it tomorrow abd its going to feel rushed

OP posts:
Tippexy · 10/08/2025 01:13

Imagoodperson999 · 09/08/2025 23:18

ASD was diagnosed via ADOS
I found a report called speech and language therapy profile. This was in 2021 I done a screen shot because I was messaging up trying to type it. It mentions moderate language disorder. I cant find anything about moderate learning difficulties.

Good work on finding that, it’s always good to get these things checked.

Given the gap between his school year and the level he is working at, I would still query learning difficulties too - if you are able to speak to the psychologist then that might be helpful.

But first - get some sleep! 😁

flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 09:40

You can start by saying “section B doesn’t accurately reflect Max’s special educational needs and section F does not include all the special educational provision he reasonably requires.”

Then you will need to go on to mention specifics in each section (and other sections if necessary) that need amending. You will need to look at all the evidence to do this.

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 09:54

flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 09:40

You can start by saying “section B doesn’t accurately reflect Max’s special educational needs and section F does not include all the special educational provision he reasonably requires.”

Then you will need to go on to mention specifics in each section (and other sections if necessary) that need amending. You will need to look at all the evidence to do this.

So when you say evidence i should bring up whats been said in other reports ? Some of them were done in 2021/2022. So i don't know if they will just say thry are old reports.

But I did find a bit says max is working towards reception level despite being in year 1. Then most recently senco told me verbally hes working ay year 1 level. But in writing it says hes workong at keystage 1 level. But about to go into year 6. So that meand hes further behinde than he used to be ?

OP posts:
TheLivelyViper · 10/08/2025 10:02

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 09:54

So when you say evidence i should bring up whats been said in other reports ? Some of them were done in 2021/2022. So i don't know if they will just say thry are old reports.

But I did find a bit says max is working towards reception level despite being in year 1. Then most recently senco told me verbally hes working ay year 1 level. But in writing it says hes workong at keystage 1 level. But about to go into year 6. So that meand hes further behinde than he used to be ?

Yes refer back to old reports (write the whole name and be specific on where it is, name the numbered paragraph etc). Also make sure everything is written so everytime you have a conversation with the SENCO, email her after to say just making sure we're on the same about what we discussed - and write it down, she'll then say yes and then it's recorded. Ask the SENCO on whether he's further behind or not.

flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 10:09

The content of the EHCP is based on the evidence, so, yes, you need to base your amendments on evidence. If the evidence is still relevant and you don’t have more up to date evidence, still use the old evidence.

TeenToTwenties · 10/08/2025 10:37

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 09:54

So when you say evidence i should bring up whats been said in other reports ? Some of them were done in 2021/2022. So i don't know if they will just say thry are old reports.

But I did find a bit says max is working towards reception level despite being in year 1. Then most recently senco told me verbally hes working ay year 1 level. But in writing it says hes workong at keystage 1 level. But about to go into year 6. So that meand hes further behinde than he used to be ?

Yes he is further behind, which isn't a surprise as you would expect gaps to increase over time not decrease if there are persistent issues.

From what you have said I would be pushing for a special school. If he is 3/4/5 years behind with also communication difficulties I don't think mainstream will be a happy place for him.

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 10:39

TheLivelyViper · 10/08/2025 10:02

Yes refer back to old reports (write the whole name and be specific on where it is, name the numbered paragraph etc). Also make sure everything is written so everytime you have a conversation with the SENCO, email her after to say just making sure we're on the same about what we discussed - and write it down, she'll then say yes and then it's recorded. Ask the SENCO on whether he's further behind or not.

Ok thank you . I think I might just put the original ehcp and the proposed next to each other and then heigh light what i dont agree with. After I have done that I will them add the evidence.

I dont even know if I trust senco anymore I feel they just fob me off . I totally believe primary school can reach ds needs and I know hes happy at school. I feel like they are not getting it though my fuss is about when he gos to secondary school.

One thing that did happen though was when he was in year 3 mr S (ta) sat with max most of the time for everything academic. And he was doing well (for him) then he went into year 4 and had Ms d (ta) and he got next to no help . Teacher used to shout at him tell him its not good enough. Ts was hardly ever in the room. Ds told me he didn't get help he saud Ms d would tell him to do something and then walk away. But he didn't understand. Thing is i didn't know how badly ds was being treated. Its only through little bits that ds was saying that it started to slowly come out. And he still reflects on it now so it really upset him. For year 6 he has mr s again so he will be ok. But ahain i do t have any evidence regarding year 4.

OP posts:
Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 14:56

I feel like im going insane 😭 i just spent over 3 hrs going though the original ehcp and the proposed one.

They are the same when I compared the only difference i can see is one part where is said max will do xxx so he can develop meaningful friendships but the other says the same but uses the word relationship instead of friendships. Oh and a bit about brong scared of the toilet has been removed. IThe original ehcp says mainstream school. The proposed one has been left empty.

Now in really confused because the LA sent me original EHCP and the proposed EHCP so I could compare. As I said above they are the same apart from the small bits I mentioned.

Obviously I have posted pics of the ehcp on here and I noticed some changes and others noticed more where words were changed such as max may benefit from.. instead of max will benefit from. And max will need support above and beyond that available at mainstream setting. And the wording were changed so his needs seemed less. Now them changes of words don't seem to be there. They are not the same as the original.

I feel like im going insane. Have I got everything mixed up and confused .😞

OP posts:
Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 16:19

Im now thinking is the EHCP even realivent to secondary school.

Is it because i have my thinking back to front
I feel like I want there to be something in writing that says why mainstream is suitable for ds. How they can reach his needs from all points not just academic. How will they do this etc. I also want simlar regarding sen schools why dont they think it would be suitable for DS etc. Then I choose according to the official advice I have been given.

But im meant to choose first then after that the school says if they can reach needs or not . It feels back to front.

OP posts:
TheLivelyViper · 10/08/2025 16:44

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 16:19

Im now thinking is the EHCP even realivent to secondary school.

Is it because i have my thinking back to front
I feel like I want there to be something in writing that says why mainstream is suitable for ds. How they can reach his needs from all points not just academic. How will they do this etc. I also want simlar regarding sen schools why dont they think it would be suitable for DS etc. Then I choose according to the official advice I have been given.

But im meant to choose first then after that the school says if they can reach needs or not . It feels back to front.

The ECHP will be relevant to secondary they may update it but it will at least give them a good picture of his needs and how to work with him well whether mainstream or not. I would still make sure you highlight anything you're not happy with, any areas they've changed and any areas you need more support.

When you are looking at secondary schools in September then ask the SENCOs lots of questions and thr future head of year etc - I'd email them or write a list down when you go for morning tours and then ask to have a speicifc meeting with SENCOs to go through it all and see whether mainstream is appropriate or not for each school. Also talk to his current primary school SENCO about what she thinks, what level he's working at etc - get her to confirm this in writing in an email as well.

flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 17:11

It is right that section I is left blank on the proposed amended EHCP. It shouldn’t name a placement or type of placement.

Was the EHCP amended following the annual reviews in 2023 &/or 2024? The original EHCP finalised in 2022 may not be the current version of the EHCP. That could explain why you don’t think the current version is the same as the original version.

An EHCP is relevant to secondary school, but it needs to accurately reflect DS’s needs and the provision he requires.

Thegladstonebag · 10/08/2025 17:56

Make sure you are using the most up to date version of the EHCP when you are comparing it to the Amendment Notice, which is what they have sent to you. There may have been some updated reports sent out ahead of the recent Annual Review. You should have been sent these. Ask the SEND team.
Is there anyone involved from the Local Authority’s Autism Advisory Team? They would be good to have on board. Ask the SEND Team.

It sounds as though you might want to ask for a further review in September, with SENDIAS there, or someone who can take notes for you. Hard to do it all by yourself I know.

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 18:09

flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 17:11

It is right that section I is left blank on the proposed amended EHCP. It shouldn’t name a placement or type of placement.

Was the EHCP amended following the annual reviews in 2023 &/or 2024? The original EHCP finalised in 2022 may not be the current version of the EHCP. That could explain why you don’t think the current version is the same as the original version.

An EHCP is relevant to secondary school, but it needs to accurately reflect DS’s needs and the provision he requires.

@flawlessflipper it seens to be from review from 2025. I have done a pic of recent titles they have sent me along with a small note . So I think the proposed ehcp does include the recent review

Help with ds ehcp again/amended  ehcp
OP posts:
flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 18:13

I know the proposed amendments are from the annual review this year. But if the EHCP was amended following the annual review in 2023 &/or 2024, that will be the existing EHCP (that you need to compare the amendments to), not the original from 2022.

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 19:14

flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 18:13

I know the proposed amendments are from the annual review this year. But if the EHCP was amended following the annual review in 2023 &/or 2024, that will be the existing EHCP (that you need to compare the amendments to), not the original from 2022.

So should I have an original ehcp which was max very first one in 2022. Then in 2023 there should be a review. Then should I have got an update of an ehcp also in 2023 to include them updates? Then in 2024 another review and updated ehcp?

So they are not actually new ehcps but updated ones ?

I think there has been 3 reviews since ds was in year 3

I have only ever had 1 updated ehcp which is the proposed one they are asking me to look at. But the original says 2022 and so does the proposed one .

The LA sent me an enail of both and said to compare them so I photo copied them and went hrogh it all.

Im starting to think its just me being a dick. If its me then I don't even need to go to the meeting tomorrow

OP posts:
flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 19:18

The EHCP was finalised in 2022.

In 2023, there should have been an annual review. The EHCP may or may not have been amended.

In 2024, there should have been another annual review. The EHCP may or may not have been amended.

So they are not actually new ehcps but updated ones ?

That is right.

Go to the meeting. Even if you have misunderstood something, they can explain it to you so you understand.

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 19:51

flawlessflipper · 10/08/2025 19:18

The EHCP was finalised in 2022.

In 2023, there should have been an annual review. The EHCP may or may not have been amended.

In 2024, there should have been another annual review. The EHCP may or may not have been amended.

So they are not actually new ehcps but updated ones ?

That is right.

Go to the meeting. Even if you have misunderstood something, they can explain it to you so you understand.

I think that's whats happend i think for year 3 he got the ehcp . Then he had reviews . But not amended ehcp. Then for late yesr 5 it was reviewed and updated ehcp.

It feels like parents are told to choose a school then LA decide if its suitable. But they don't actually care if it is or not.

So even though its probably me who's messed it all up and got it all wrong is there really any point in me going still? Is there any point in me mentioning how worried I am about choosing a wrong school for ds or is that nothing to do with them im thst way.

I also i have to have the choices in by 19th of September which is really not the long away.

OP posts:
TheLivelyViper · 10/08/2025 20:13

Imagoodperson999 · 10/08/2025 19:51

I think that's whats happend i think for year 3 he got the ehcp . Then he had reviews . But not amended ehcp. Then for late yesr 5 it was reviewed and updated ehcp.

It feels like parents are told to choose a school then LA decide if its suitable. But they don't actually care if it is or not.

So even though its probably me who's messed it all up and got it all wrong is there really any point in me going still? Is there any point in me mentioning how worried I am about choosing a wrong school for ds or is that nothing to do with them im thst way.

I also i have to have the choices in by 19th of September which is really not the long away.

Yes, please still go to the meeting, ask questions about anything you're confused about, and even ask them to explain it again.

You can ask about mainstream or special school and also what specific things you should look out for when you're picking secondary schools - what ones do they recommend, etc. Also still go through the ECHP and highlight and annotate (refer back to any precious evidence) on where you're not happy with the amount of support he's getting, is it removing his 1-1 support etc.

Also, tell them about Y4 and the Ms D. You have proof your son telling you, and that's enough to say to them in the meeting, why did that happen? And that you don't want it to happen again. And that he needs a 1-1 ta for all lessons in secondary school. Please still go, make notes (you can also ask them to write anything down as well and if they mention any acronyms or services ask them to explain detail what they are and how you should contact them or how they will contact them.

Thegladstonebag · 10/08/2025 20:14

Everything should be done WITH you, not TO you, so you should be involved in all meetings, Annual Reviews, etc. That is your right. The amended EHCP should be sent out after each review. Sometimes there are no amendments but that is uncommon and you’d still get an updated version with a new date, even if it is unaltered. Definitely go to the meeting and ask questions.