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Help with ds ehcp again/amended ehcp

208 replies

Imagoodperson999 · 06/08/2025 12:25

So the LA have made changes to ds ehcp. They are not clear to me . I don't get it and i don't even know if it makes a difference. And i can't see if it helps with choosing a secondary school.

Anyway im going to copy and paste the new ehcp just section F on this post. Then im going to find the older section F and post that on my 2nd post.

I was hoping someone can help me compare them. Please bare in mind that I have learning difficulties as well . So things that seem clear to others may not be to me.

So from amended EHCP section F

(F) Special Educational Provision above quality first teaching.
Provision

· Max will join a speech and language group run by the speech and language therapist for a block of therapy to work on language, speech and communication skills. Outcomes and recommendations should also be implemented by school.
· Lego therapy would be a good way to help Max in his communication with peers in a structured session. This builds on his love of Lego.

Strategies

Max needs an appropriately differentiated curriculum. Present and give information at a language level he can understand. For example:
12 / 18
· Break down instructions into small, manageable parts or chunks.
· Before giving instructions to Max, call his name, and make sure you have his full attention and that he is looking at you.
· Model/demonstrate what Max has to do before he starts a task.
· Use short, simple instructions, and slow down when talking to Max. Try to break down instructions into short, manageable chunks (rather than “Do x, then do y”, just give one part at a time).
· Allow processing time. Then repeat instructions to Max if needed, making sure you repeat the instruction the same each time
· Use visual support (e.g. natural gesture, facial expression, pictures, symbols, written word) alongside instructions and conversations.

Vocabulary
· Develop a basic communication board with the words he needs to ask for items in class, e.g. pencil sharpener, rubber, toilet, drink, help, finished, break. Have it on the desk and point to it when communicating with Max to encourage him to use it too.

· Pre-teach key or topic vocabulary before Max comes across the words in the lesson.
· Use a consistent structure to explore word meanings and sounds. Think about the first sound of the word, how many syllables, a word it rhymes with, an action for the word, a picture or drawing for the word, use it in a sentence, and give some information about its meaning. For example, a mind map or “Word Wizard” (Word Aware programme).
· When Max has difficulties retrieving a word, prompt him using these categories that he has already covered, e.g. give him the first sound of the word, or ask him to act it out.
· Review the words that have been provided by putting them in a “word pot” or “word bank” on Max’s table, on a word wall in the classroom, or in a vocabulary book.
· Where possible present vocabulary to Max using a multi- sensory approach. Using pictures, symbols, demonstrations.
· Have Max think about words in categories. Play word association games in a small group (e.g. each person has to name something that relates to cars or has to identify the ‘odd one out’ for a list of three).
· Encourage Max to say when he does not understand a word. He can tell the teaching assistant, who can note the word down. Max can collect words that he has ‘captured’ to help expand his vocabulary knowledge.

Asking for help
· Encourage Max to ask for help if he does not know what to do. Max could be provided with a visual to help him know how to make specific requests for help. Encourage and praise asking for help in the whole class.

Access to small group work to practise Max’s social communication and conversation skills.
· Encourage small group work or naturally occurring small groups when possible in lessons, or in the playground of no more than 3 children in a group, where Max has to engage with his peers to complete the task, e.g. with opportunities to engage in “role specific” play, for example Lego Therapy, where children are either an “architect”, “engineer” or “builder”. The use of roles encourages children to interact with each other to achieve a shared goal.
· Play games at home that encourage interaction such as passing on objects, exploring together, snap or lotto.
· Give Max visual cues of good conversational skills and refer to them during 1:1 conversation, e.g. “eye contact”, or “talk about the same thing”, asking a question, saying something about what the person he is talking with has said, taking turns in conversation.
· Talkabout” or a social skills intervention may be helpful.
13 / 18
· Play games or activities which develop Max’s abilities to stay on topic during conversation, e.g. category games where you take it in turns to pick an object in the same category.
· Give Max a visual prompt you can use to show him when he goes “off topic” when answering a question. For example, a picture of a train and a track. The train can move along the track whilst you are talking or playing a game, and when Max gives an irrelevant answer or goes off topic, use the visual support to take the train off the track.
· For Max to use visual support (e.g. a narrative or talking prompt) to help him structure his news clearly e.g. to explain what he has done at the weekend or in the holidays. A talking prompt could also be used in talk partner work in class to help Max talk with a peer about a question the class is discussing

Beginning to develop Max’s explaining skills

· Read lots of stories with Max – these can be both with or without visuals and ask him questions based on the story after this, such as ‘who’ ‘what happened’ ’where’ ‘how’ and ‘what can the characters do? what is going to happen next?’ and ‘why’.
· Encourage Max to expand on his answers in conversation, by using open-ended questions, such as “tell me more”, or by giving him more time to add information.
· Use sets of pictures of familiar sequences (e.g. getting ready for school, growing a flower): put the pictures in order and talk about what happens ‘first, next, last’. Support Max work towards using this structure and vocabulary to talk about real events or to share his news and ask him what he thinks might happen next in the story.
· Try using visual support such as Black sheep press ‘Why, because’ cards to help Max explain his reasoning when answering simple ‘why?’ questions.
· Discuss different real-life scenarios using pictures and objects in a 1:1 or small group setting. Think about what might happen, why and what if. Max may benefit from structured intervention to target this, for example “Mr Goodguess” or Talkabout School/Home ( Black Sheep Press resources).
· School will give Max a piece of work/picture/item to take home to talk about with his Mum. This will help Max to generate ideas and remember an event in school.

Speech
· Provide Max with clear production of words he finds it hard to say, ensuring that he is able to see the mouth of the speaker to help him produce the sounds correctly and with slight emphasis on the word e.g. “I want soo” yes “you want two”. Can you hear that ”t” sound? Praise Max if he tries to copy the correct production or correct himself.

Arrangements for review and evaluation

Max can be re-referred to the Speech & Language service for review once these outcomes have been achieved.

Old section F will be added to my 2nd post

OP posts:
VintageJewellery · 07/08/2025 18:00

That's pretty good if he could manage both PE and art in mainstream. That's a really great start. Are there other subjects that he could manage?

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 18:05

VintageJewellery · 07/08/2025 18:00

That's pretty good if he could manage both PE and art in mainstream. That's a really great start. Are there other subjects that he could manage?

They were examples because you mentioned math English science. So I just gave examples .

When you said about. Doing math English science at home im wondering how that's possible when he cant get from one setting to another

OP posts:
Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 18:07

Tippexy · 07/08/2025 17:59

Moderate language disorder isn’t a phrase used in the UK. MLD will mean moderate learning difficulties. Then there is DLD/SLI - developmental language disorder also known as specific language impairment.

Max has been diagnosed with a moderate language disorder, alongside social communication difficulties in association with his diagnosis of ASD; Max is socially immature

Thats a copy and paste from his ehcp

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

VintageJewellery · 07/08/2025 18:07

I think the school would only offer home tuition in maths, English and science. I was assuming that getting into school for anything at all would be difficult, but it may be that it is not like that. I also assumed that mainstream school might be very close to your house and easy to get to, but maybe that is not the case? I'm just assuming based on my own family circumstances, but your situation may be really different.

VintageJewellery · 07/08/2025 18:08

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 18:07

Max has been diagnosed with a moderate language disorder, alongside social communication difficulties in association with his diagnosis of ASD; Max is socially immature

Thats a copy and paste from his ehcp

Yes I know what you mean.

Sorry it's really hard to know what to say when I know very little about him. I was hoping to help, but it's very hard without knowing him much.

Neolara · 07/08/2025 18:23

I'm an EP. I've skim read the two section F's. It looks to me as if the original was based on the provision outlined in the EP's EHC psychological advice but the updated version is possibly based on teacher input, maybe following an annual review.

If I were you, I would try to get back the specifics from the original into the updated EHCP.

Realistically, I think you would be exceptionally lucky to get the LA to agree to an updated EP assessment, especially if the EHCP was agreed in 2022. Most LAs have a massive backlog of children who need to be assessed by EPs for initial EHCP psychological advice. Because there is a statutory duty on LAs to provide this advice within a specific timeframe, these kind of assessments are prioritised over everything else and unfortunately reassessments are one of the casualties.

flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 18:27

Not all special schools are the same. Not all cater for DC with complex needs.

I would think carefully whether you truly think DS would be OK socially as he moves through secondary school. The language used to socialise because more complex. Interests change. And some teens can be cruel.

Moderate language disorder isn’t used so much now, but some DC still have the description.

Education otherwise than in school can be provided for some or all of the time. At home or elsewhere. It can cover far more than just maths, English and science. It also doesn’t require a state mainstream school to agree. However, it can only be provided if it is legally inappropriate for provision to take place in school, and not just one specific school. And more often than not, it takes an appeal. Transport can be provided. It would usually be e.g. Monday morning with provision otherwise than at school and Monday afternoon in school.

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 18:29

Neolara · 07/08/2025 18:23

I'm an EP. I've skim read the two section F's. It looks to me as if the original was based on the provision outlined in the EP's EHC psychological advice but the updated version is possibly based on teacher input, maybe following an annual review.

If I were you, I would try to get back the specifics from the original into the updated EHCP.

Realistically, I think you would be exceptionally lucky to get the LA to agree to an updated EP assessment, especially if the EHCP was agreed in 2022. Most LAs have a massive backlog of children who need to be assessed by EPs for initial EHCP psychological advice. Because there is a statutory duty on LAs to provide this advice within a specific timeframe, these kind of assessments are prioritised over everything else and unfortunately reassessments are one of the casualties.

Im happy with the original ehcp. Its the confusion of the updated one. Its not set in stone yet so hopefully can be sorted out. I have an appointment with them next week. Im also going to go to another drop in next week as well. So hopefully it will get clearer.

OP posts:
mamagogo1 · 07/08/2025 18:31

The amended one looks more like the implementation rather than the aims, 3 years on it will have changed or at least potentially

flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 18:32

The original is vague and woolly. You shouldn’t be happy with that.

mamagogo1 · 07/08/2025 18:37

My personal experience is that special school could not offer the level of education my dd was capable of so I fought the lea for appropriate provision within a mainstream setting (and won) they had wanted her to go a unit which had no proper science facilities and only took 6 GCSE’s - she passed 13 at a or a*!

gardenflowergirl · 07/08/2025 18:38

The difference is essentially in the first sentence and first point. '..above quality first teaching' means he needs additional provision not available in a standard classroom, like the speech and language unit mentioned.

With word 'above' taken out of the first sentence and just saying 'quality first teaching', means in a standard classroom with everyone else no specific provision provided.

flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 18:42

mamagogo1 · 07/08/2025 18:37

My personal experience is that special school could not offer the level of education my dd was capable of so I fought the lea for appropriate provision within a mainstream setting (and won) they had wanted her to go a unit which had no proper science facilities and only took 6 GCSE’s - she passed 13 at a or a*!

And that is totally irrelevant to the OP’s situation.

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 18:42

flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 18:27

Not all special schools are the same. Not all cater for DC with complex needs.

I would think carefully whether you truly think DS would be OK socially as he moves through secondary school. The language used to socialise because more complex. Interests change. And some teens can be cruel.

Moderate language disorder isn’t used so much now, but some DC still have the description.

Education otherwise than in school can be provided for some or all of the time. At home or elsewhere. It can cover far more than just maths, English and science. It also doesn’t require a state mainstream school to agree. However, it can only be provided if it is legally inappropriate for provision to take place in school, and not just one specific school. And more often than not, it takes an appeal. Transport can be provided. It would usually be e.g. Monday morning with provision otherwise than at school and Monday afternoon in school.

Its all so confusing. It feels like what am I meant to believe. I mean is it actually that max would be fine at mainstream secondary have I been over thinkng this whole time. Or is it that im not over thinkong and he really wouldn't manage.

Then with the sen schools in thinkong are the professionals right is a SEN school really not right for him coukd it pull him back socially and emotionally.

Probably an odd thing to say . But I feel like i need proof that he would manage in mainstream. I want proof of how they would help him. Proof that they are not going to punish him due to his needs . Proof that he will be ok metally and emotionally.

From a sen school I want proof on why it would not be suitable for him. Weather that be academic, or socially .

And I want it in very clear basic language. So theres no confusion in anyway. So that I know what's actually going on because I actually dont 😭

OP posts:
Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 18:44

flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 18:32

The original is vague and woolly. You shouldn’t be happy with that.

Isn't the 2nd one worse?

OP posts:
flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 18:44

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 18:44

Isn't the 2nd one worse?

The are both utterly inadequate.

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 18:53

flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 18:44

The are both utterly inadequate.

Probably i think because I fekt he was/is hapoy at primary and they always seemed good with him i thought the ehcp was OK. And because of ny own difficulties I have Probably missed things. It feels much more different now secondary schools are on my mind

OP posts:
Thegladstonebag · 07/08/2025 20:45

Imagoodperson999 · 06/08/2025 18:14

I tried sossen they spoken to me on the phone told me to fill in a form for them to look into the ehcp. Told me not to worry about the fee something can be sorted out gave lots of reassurance. Then turned something could not be sorted and they couldn't help unless I pay the fee.

Never heard of IPSEA I will look.

Im meant to be working with SENDIAS they are the ones that helped my trigger for the EHCP to be looked at again. But they are not returning my emails so i have no idea what's going on

SENDIASS may be a term time only service in your area, so you might not hear from them until September.

But yes, this is too vague and woolly.

Thegladstonebag · 07/08/2025 20:49

IcyMint · 06/08/2025 18:42

The first one you posted if offering a much lower level of support.

He may actually need less support BUT there should be evidence in place to support that.

Thegladstonebag · 07/08/2025 20:54

gardenflowergirl · 07/08/2025 18:38

The difference is essentially in the first sentence and first point. '..above quality first teaching' means he needs additional provision not available in a standard classroom, like the speech and language unit mentioned.

With word 'above' taken out of the first sentence and just saying 'quality first teaching', means in a standard classroom with everyone else no specific provision provided.

It is common to state that QFT strategies are needed, rather than listing them all, and then to go on to list the strategies needed over and above QFT. Weasel words aplenty here though!

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 21:05

Thegladstonebag · 07/08/2025 20:45

SENDIASS may be a term time only service in your area, so you might not hear from them until September.

But yes, this is too vague and woolly.

No they are there over the holidays. They told me

OP posts:
flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 21:07

Even if SENDIASS is working, it may take longer to respond because of the holiday.

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 21:08

Thegladstonebag · 07/08/2025 20:49

He may actually need less support BUT there should be evidence in place to support that.

There's no way he needs less help hes working at year 1 level about to go into year 6. He doesn't do any work unless someone is sitting with him.

OP posts:
Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 21:09

flawlessflipper · 07/08/2025 21:07

Even if SENDIASS is working, it may take longer to respond because of the holiday.

Yeah maybe. Anyway at least I can see them next week so that's something

OP posts:
Thegladstonebag · 07/08/2025 21:19

Imagoodperson999 · 07/08/2025 21:09

Yeah maybe. Anyway at least I can see them next week so that's something

That’s good. See if they can support you by attending the meeting with the LA with you.