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Help with ds ehcp again/amended ehcp

208 replies

Imagoodperson999 · 06/08/2025 12:25

So the LA have made changes to ds ehcp. They are not clear to me . I don't get it and i don't even know if it makes a difference. And i can't see if it helps with choosing a secondary school.

Anyway im going to copy and paste the new ehcp just section F on this post. Then im going to find the older section F and post that on my 2nd post.

I was hoping someone can help me compare them. Please bare in mind that I have learning difficulties as well . So things that seem clear to others may not be to me.

So from amended EHCP section F

(F) Special Educational Provision above quality first teaching.
Provision

· Max will join a speech and language group run by the speech and language therapist for a block of therapy to work on language, speech and communication skills. Outcomes and recommendations should also be implemented by school.
· Lego therapy would be a good way to help Max in his communication with peers in a structured session. This builds on his love of Lego.

Strategies

Max needs an appropriately differentiated curriculum. Present and give information at a language level he can understand. For example:
12 / 18
· Break down instructions into small, manageable parts or chunks.
· Before giving instructions to Max, call his name, and make sure you have his full attention and that he is looking at you.
· Model/demonstrate what Max has to do before he starts a task.
· Use short, simple instructions, and slow down when talking to Max. Try to break down instructions into short, manageable chunks (rather than “Do x, then do y”, just give one part at a time).
· Allow processing time. Then repeat instructions to Max if needed, making sure you repeat the instruction the same each time
· Use visual support (e.g. natural gesture, facial expression, pictures, symbols, written word) alongside instructions and conversations.

Vocabulary
· Develop a basic communication board with the words he needs to ask for items in class, e.g. pencil sharpener, rubber, toilet, drink, help, finished, break. Have it on the desk and point to it when communicating with Max to encourage him to use it too.

· Pre-teach key or topic vocabulary before Max comes across the words in the lesson.
· Use a consistent structure to explore word meanings and sounds. Think about the first sound of the word, how many syllables, a word it rhymes with, an action for the word, a picture or drawing for the word, use it in a sentence, and give some information about its meaning. For example, a mind map or “Word Wizard” (Word Aware programme).
· When Max has difficulties retrieving a word, prompt him using these categories that he has already covered, e.g. give him the first sound of the word, or ask him to act it out.
· Review the words that have been provided by putting them in a “word pot” or “word bank” on Max’s table, on a word wall in the classroom, or in a vocabulary book.
· Where possible present vocabulary to Max using a multi- sensory approach. Using pictures, symbols, demonstrations.
· Have Max think about words in categories. Play word association games in a small group (e.g. each person has to name something that relates to cars or has to identify the ‘odd one out’ for a list of three).
· Encourage Max to say when he does not understand a word. He can tell the teaching assistant, who can note the word down. Max can collect words that he has ‘captured’ to help expand his vocabulary knowledge.

Asking for help
· Encourage Max to ask for help if he does not know what to do. Max could be provided with a visual to help him know how to make specific requests for help. Encourage and praise asking for help in the whole class.

Access to small group work to practise Max’s social communication and conversation skills.
· Encourage small group work or naturally occurring small groups when possible in lessons, or in the playground of no more than 3 children in a group, where Max has to engage with his peers to complete the task, e.g. with opportunities to engage in “role specific” play, for example Lego Therapy, where children are either an “architect”, “engineer” or “builder”. The use of roles encourages children to interact with each other to achieve a shared goal.
· Play games at home that encourage interaction such as passing on objects, exploring together, snap or lotto.
· Give Max visual cues of good conversational skills and refer to them during 1:1 conversation, e.g. “eye contact”, or “talk about the same thing”, asking a question, saying something about what the person he is talking with has said, taking turns in conversation.
· Talkabout” or a social skills intervention may be helpful.
13 / 18
· Play games or activities which develop Max’s abilities to stay on topic during conversation, e.g. category games where you take it in turns to pick an object in the same category.
· Give Max a visual prompt you can use to show him when he goes “off topic” when answering a question. For example, a picture of a train and a track. The train can move along the track whilst you are talking or playing a game, and when Max gives an irrelevant answer or goes off topic, use the visual support to take the train off the track.
· For Max to use visual support (e.g. a narrative or talking prompt) to help him structure his news clearly e.g. to explain what he has done at the weekend or in the holidays. A talking prompt could also be used in talk partner work in class to help Max talk with a peer about a question the class is discussing

Beginning to develop Max’s explaining skills

· Read lots of stories with Max – these can be both with or without visuals and ask him questions based on the story after this, such as ‘who’ ‘what happened’ ’where’ ‘how’ and ‘what can the characters do? what is going to happen next?’ and ‘why’.
· Encourage Max to expand on his answers in conversation, by using open-ended questions, such as “tell me more”, or by giving him more time to add information.
· Use sets of pictures of familiar sequences (e.g. getting ready for school, growing a flower): put the pictures in order and talk about what happens ‘first, next, last’. Support Max work towards using this structure and vocabulary to talk about real events or to share his news and ask him what he thinks might happen next in the story.
· Try using visual support such as Black sheep press ‘Why, because’ cards to help Max explain his reasoning when answering simple ‘why?’ questions.
· Discuss different real-life scenarios using pictures and objects in a 1:1 or small group setting. Think about what might happen, why and what if. Max may benefit from structured intervention to target this, for example “Mr Goodguess” or Talkabout School/Home ( Black Sheep Press resources).
· School will give Max a piece of work/picture/item to take home to talk about with his Mum. This will help Max to generate ideas and remember an event in school.

Speech
· Provide Max with clear production of words he finds it hard to say, ensuring that he is able to see the mouth of the speaker to help him produce the sounds correctly and with slight emphasis on the word e.g. “I want soo” yes “you want two”. Can you hear that ”t” sound? Praise Max if he tries to copy the correct production or correct himself.

Arrangements for review and evaluation

Max can be re-referred to the Speech & Language service for review once these outcomes have been achieved.

Old section F will be added to my 2nd post

OP posts:
VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 14:16

@flawlessflipper I think the OP would really appreciate if you could write the accronyms out in full.

flawlessflipper · 08/08/2025 14:20

VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 14:16

@flawlessflipper I think the OP would really appreciate if you could write the accronyms out in full.

OP just needs to forget about EOTAS/EOTIS. It isn’t relevant to her. I only mentioned it in response to your post which brought it up.

Most children at special/specialist schools will travel by transport rather than collected by parents.

Thegladstonebag · 08/08/2025 14:23

VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 06:50

Hi @Imagoodperson999.

I think your situation is very difficult tbh. From reading the EHCP, your son will likely not manage at all in mainstream secondary, and would have a very very hard time socially in a SEN school.

I think the best option would probably be a mainstream school with a specialist unit attached like a cabin or a SEN unit that he can go to to have 1:1 teaching.

My DS is in a similar situation in that he is very good in some areas but very behind in other areas. He can't go to mainsteam because while he is age 15 in real life, in his maturity he is nearer 7, and he can't cope with all the adult topics in the secondary curriculum.

However, he is very academic so needs good teaching in all subject and would likely manage well in a good university.

I showed my son both of your EHCP documents and he read them completely through. He says he thinks it would be terribly difficult for your son to be in mainstream secondary classes.

However, we have a friend who went to SEN school and he had an awful time there too because the school was overwhelmed with too many kids, who were all very dysregulated.

Is there any way that you could get your son into either:

  1. a mainstream school that has a specialist cabin for ASD kids, where he could be taught all the time.

or

  1. keep him at home to receive teaching from tutors by alternative provision sent from a mainstream school?

The other option is an EOTAS package which means "education other than at school"

That is the only option left and will be offered to you if there is no suitable school. That is what we have and it works well for us. In that option the council just gives you money to pay for tutors who come to the house. It's good.

Are you able to be at home all the time with your son, or do you need to go out to work?

EOTIS is only agreed by LAs where it has been proved that school can meet need. It’s not an option otherwise.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

flawlessflipper · 08/08/2025 14:28

The legal test for EOTAS/EOTIS as set out in section 61 of the Children and Families Act 2014 is that it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school (or college for those old enough).

Even when there is overwhelming evidence of that many have to appeal, especially to get a comprehensive package.

Many LAs also claim they can’t agree to it unless every school/lots of schools have been consulted. That isn’t the case. For some, it is completely obvious the test in met without even consulting any schools.

Imagoodperson999 · 08/08/2025 14:31

flawlessflipper · 08/08/2025 14:20

OP just needs to forget about EOTAS/EOTIS. It isn’t relevant to her. I only mentioned it in response to your post which brought it up.

Most children at special/specialist schools will travel by transport rather than collected by parents.

Yeah once you said it wasn't really relevant for me I just left it there

OP posts:
VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 14:35

Do you have a local association for disabled families where you could ask for advice? I think that local advice might be more helpful than advice we can give you.

AmberKoala · 08/08/2025 14:50

Ah. Now I understand. The Annual Review is where the changes would have come from.You should have mentioned Special School then. We do thetransition review in Year 5 because if from the other reviews there were no changes the EHCP would have been so out of date.ie. Max is 4 years old when in fact he is now 9 or 10 years old. Did you agree to the amendments in the review?

AmberKoala · 08/08/2025 14:52

Did you maybe not understand them. There should have been teacher reports, speech and Language etc

Thegladstonebag · 08/08/2025 14:53

I think that SENDIASS and your local SEND team are better placed to help you than we are on here, even those of us who work in SEND teams, because we don’t know the case in enough detail. We haven’t seen the reports submitted as part of the Annual Review. General advice is to contact the SEND team and your case officer in particular and talk to them. They work all year round so someone should be available to talk/meet. Also try your local Parent Carer Forum, their details should be in the Local Offer.

Imagoodperson999 · 08/08/2025 14:55

VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 14:35

Do you have a local association for disabled families where you could ask for advice? I think that local advice might be more helpful than advice we can give you.

I have always been pointed towards sendias with the groups it seems mostly that people know where they stand it always seens to be they are are clear sen school child or mainstream i never seem to come across in the fence situations. And its also difficult because people will say things like my child has an ehcp/sen they go to xx its fantastic i highly recommend it. Then it will turn out their child is severely disabled. Or a child who has much lower need and will cope very well on a main stream . But not realivent to my child so it feels like a mine filed. Then I have a whole new thing to confuse me more.

OP posts:
AmberKoala · 08/08/2025 14:55

We then further update them in year 6 and meet the Senco from new provision, organise extra visits, introduce a key person at the new school for them etc

flawlessflipper · 08/08/2025 14:58

OP is still going through the review process. She has the proposed amendments following the annual review meeting (the meeting is just one part of the annual review process). She now gets the chance to respond to the proposed amendments.

The EHCP should be updated when necessary even if it isn’t a phase transfer review.

Even if the content of the EHCP needs updating, technically the phase transfer review should be held in the autumn term of Y6 because it should be held within 12 months of the transfer but needs to be held early enough in Y6 to be finalised by Feb 15th at the latest.

Some LAs hold phase transfer reviews in Y5, but it should really be in the autumn term of Y6.

It is just another way LAs act unlawfully.

Personally, I wouldn’t rely on the LA or SENDIASS for advice.

Imagoodperson999 · 08/08/2025 15:04

AmberKoala · 08/08/2025 14:50

Ah. Now I understand. The Annual Review is where the changes would have come from.You should have mentioned Special School then. We do thetransition review in Year 5 because if from the other reviews there were no changes the EHCP would have been so out of date.ie. Max is 4 years old when in fact he is now 9 or 10 years old. Did you agree to the amendments in the review?

When we done the year 5 review i asked if I should be looking at mainstream or sen. They told me mainstream it was only later that I started to question it. When I mentioned it to senco and the person who does the transitions i was told im over thinking and worrying to much. The transition person even told me not to worry he had an EHCP so he will get a 121 that's mot even true but she still said it. So its like who do i believe . No one it seems.

Almost forgot I did call some mainstream and I asked if a child is working at year 1 level is it likely they can reach his needs . They all said no.

OP posts:
VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 15:06

@Imagoodperson999 I know what you mean about fence situations.

I think there are a lot of kids who are not a good fit for mainsteam or SEN schools. A lot of them end up electively home educating.

My son has a package from the council to be schooled at home, but I totally understand that that is not what your son needs.

There are just do many different ways that kids can struggle, and the tricky thing is to find out what will be best for each child.

Some kids get sent to private schools so they can have a quiet environment and small class sizes. Is that something that might be an option there?

VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 15:07

Sorry I posted that and then your post appeared, so I hadn't read it.

AmberKoala · 08/08/2025 15:07

Well I took over as SENCO in this primary school and none were updated believe me. I was also told the transition review was done in Year 5 as I said the same. However they start the year 7 school consultations this September. They need an updated plan for that surely. I am also secondary school trained and most of the consultations I got were EHCP that spoke about the student being 4 years old!

VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 15:09

Yes I think it is very good to talk to the mainsteam schools yourself and ask if they can meet your son's needs. If it is clear that they can't then they will refuse to offer him a place, and then there is no risk that he will end up somewhere unsuitable.

I was told that if my son was offered a place in mainstream because the EHCP was not written correctly, then I should visit the school and explain the reality of the situation and then they could respond appropriately and refuse to offer a place.

If no state school either maintream or special school can offer a place, then the council will look at private schools.

Imagoodperson999 · 08/08/2025 15:09

Thegladstonebag · 08/08/2025 14:53

I think that SENDIASS and your local SEND team are better placed to help you than we are on here, even those of us who work in SEND teams, because we don’t know the case in enough detail. We haven’t seen the reports submitted as part of the Annual Review. General advice is to contact the SEND team and your case officer in particular and talk to them. They work all year round so someone should be available to talk/meet. Also try your local Parent Carer Forum, their details should be in the Local Offer.

Im going through that now. I just dont know what to believe with them.

People on here have told me sendias can be known to back up LA even if its not in the best interest of the child. I feel like this is what's going to happen so im fighting a loosing battle I think

OP posts:
VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 15:10

It's good that you are starting early. It gives you time to let the process work its way through, and you can visit schools and talk to them when it becomes possible.

flawlessflipper · 08/08/2025 15:13

AmberKoala · 08/08/2025 15:07

Well I took over as SENCO in this primary school and none were updated believe me. I was also told the transition review was done in Year 5 as I said the same. However they start the year 7 school consultations this September. They need an updated plan for that surely. I am also secondary school trained and most of the consultations I got were EHCP that spoke about the student being 4 years old!

As I said, some LAs do hold phase transfer reviews in Y5, but they shouldn’t. Many LAs don’t update EHCPs even when they need it. Both are unlawful. The EHCP should be updated in Y5 if it requires it, that doesn’t make it the phase transfer review. Even if the LA asks parents for parental preference in September of Y6, the parents can change their mind when they respond to the proposed amendments that they must receive within 4 weeks of phase transfer review meeting (which should be held in the autumn term of Y6).

Imagoodperson999 · 08/08/2025 15:13

VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 15:06

@Imagoodperson999 I know what you mean about fence situations.

I think there are a lot of kids who are not a good fit for mainsteam or SEN schools. A lot of them end up electively home educating.

My son has a package from the council to be schooled at home, but I totally understand that that is not what your son needs.

There are just do many different ways that kids can struggle, and the tricky thing is to find out what will be best for each child.

Some kids get sent to private schools so they can have a quiet environment and small class sizes. Is that something that might be an option there?

I did look onto a couple of private sen schools they also said they cant reach hus nedss they said they can only take children who are working at year 3 and above ds is at year 1.

The whole thing is a pain on the bum 😭

OP posts:
flawlessflipper · 08/08/2025 15:14

Full-time 1:1 is not detailed, specified and quantified in the parts of F you have posted in your OP. Is it elsewhere in F that you haven’t posted on this thread?

If DS requires full-time 1:1, it needs to be in F.

AmberKoala · 08/08/2025 15:16

In mainstream very unusual to get 1:1. They do not fund it.

Thegladstonebag · 08/08/2025 15:17

flawlessflipper · 08/08/2025 15:13

As I said, some LAs do hold phase transfer reviews in Y5, but they shouldn’t. Many LAs don’t update EHCPs even when they need it. Both are unlawful. The EHCP should be updated in Y5 if it requires it, that doesn’t make it the phase transfer review. Even if the LA asks parents for parental preference in September of Y6, the parents can change their mind when they respond to the proposed amendments that they must receive within 4 weeks of phase transfer review meeting (which should be held in the autumn term of Y6).

Agreed. Autumn term of year 6 is the time to hold the phase transfer review.

VintageJewellery · 08/08/2025 15:18

Oh dear, yes I see what you mean. That does sound very difficult.

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