A bit uncomfortable about what ds has learnt in his ‘boys club’ lesson

[jacksmannequin]

We had a letter home a few weeks ago about these lessons that were starting about puberty and hormones, they are calling it boys and girls club, how it wasn’t sex education and parents can opt out. I didn’t opt ds10 out because I believe he should learn about development. But I’m not happy he’s been told about masturbating, he’s only 10, autistic (in a special school) and I just think he’s not mature enough to hear about that yet. He came home saying “his soul left his body” 😆 the teacher was talking about how boys can stroke their penis and make it hard and get pleasure from it. I thought wtf !
AIBU? I just think it seems a bit much for year 5!

Boys are playing with themselves since virtually day dot! Its fine imo. However, it may have not even been on the agenda but someone asked a question about it.

We didn’t have internet or phones and boys were definitely playing with their erections while we were in primary school.

Yep - it's so bizarre to me too.

My parents were both very factual about all these things though, I knew most of it before it was ever mentioned at school. The advantage of having a doctor and nurse as your parents, I guess

….and you are mistaken, OP, if you think you are privy to every aspect of your son’s inner world. Of course he has a relationship with his own body which doesn’t involve you, and his body and mind are changing. Autistic or not, he needs this education as much as the other children do.

this was me for my first 20 years

My children (all girls) were learning about sex from the age of about 5, mainly through appropriate books which explained everything in a matter of fact but loving way.

It is far easier to talk about these things pre-puberty when it is all academic to them, than to wait till it all feels nearer to home and embarrassing. They got to the embarrassed stage with all the facts already logged in their brains and were ready to deal with what came.

We had a lovely Swedish cartoon book called "Our New Baby" which shirked nothing. I do not know whether it is still in print - but love and family values were at its core whilst also showing a cartoon of a couple having sex.

That sounds useful, I had a raving religious lunatic for a parent who thought nudity and bodily functions were sinful which gave me major anxiety growing up, including an ED

My boys are 4 & 7 and have made several observations even at those ages about their penis and how it reacts to touch, so kindly, 10 is an appropriate age imo

I remember us in primary school, late 70s, being shown a clip or reel of children without clothes on so that the differences between girls and boys was clear, why, what it meant, how you have babies etc etc

Not so much on keeping safe as it were but basic biology sex education. So same age

Must have been on some sort of projector, we were taken to the hall to watch it

Totally fine. Boys have been stroking their penises and enjoying it from about 2 years old.

And when boys do hit puberty, they don't start masturbating straight away

Many boys (and girls) will be masturbating way, way before puberty. Pretty much from babyhood for some. It's normal, it's natural, they do it because it feels good. It's not a sexual thing. It's just exploring their bodies. This applies to girls too. My DD used to hump everything in sight when she was two. We had to explain it was fine to do, but only in private, from a very early age.

Age 10 seems a perfectly good age to explain to children what this is, and why it feels good. It might be a bit late for some. It's better that they know that the feelings they are getting/will get are normal and natural, and nothing to be worried or ashamed about. It's no good burying your head in the sand and thinking that your child won't be going through these changes and worries. They will, and it's better that they are educated about the changes that will happen to them.

But other children around him may well get there first. It’s better if they all share a basic body of knowledge in anticipation for that. Otherwise the boy who gets there and has it explained nicely by his family, explains it less effectively- and potentially really really inappropriately, maybe even demonstrating given time and opportunity- to your son.

I worked in a residential home for Autistic young adults and by 11 years the boys were discovering things, they were taught it can only be done in their bedrooms, in private.
So what age do you think school should be talking to them about it?

I’m pretty sure this was about when I learned about this in sex ed. It was the early 2000s and I was year 5/6, so I think it’s pretty standard. Was the talk of the playground for about a week then we all moved on to bigger and better things, like top trumps and daisy chains. Better he knows now vs later. I think it’s also important they’re teaching them body safety/good touch bad touch - but as long as it’s in that context it’s fine.

Teaching children about how their body works so they understand it, their feelings, and know they have safe adults to talk to if need be is not sexualising children ffs.

If you don't teach kids appropriately then abuse happens because kids don't understand.

There is a company that does talks like this called Big Talk Education and if it’s them, or the school nursing team or anything similar, the talks are delivered in a sensitive, age appropriate way.

They make sure children know that that they have body autonomy and that masturbation is nothing to be ashamed of, but it must be done in private and no one else can touch you in those places but you.

I’ve sat in Big Talk and school nursing team sessions with all junior school age groups and each one has been handled sensitively. They use actual terminology such as masturbation, penis, vagina etc because from a safeguarding perspective, it removes ambiguity if a child knows these terms rather than wishy-washy terms that can be missed if they disclose anything.

Did the parents have any opportunity to attend a meeting or a discussion prior to the talk to find out what it entailed?

Just to clarify masturbation isn’t named in the rshe guidance (either the 2019 one) or the new one. I would class masturbation as part of puberty education because for boys it’s often the wet dreams talk. Puberty education is statutory content- sex education is not at primary level. It’s down to individual schools to define what they call sex education which is unhelpful and confusing.

I fond your DS’s level of mortification interesting, btw. If he was innocent/ignorant as you say, then what is there to be mortified about?

• Is it a teacher using words he knows - like penis - but has been told are ‘rude’? If so, who by, and in what context?
• Are you as a family quite embarrassed about bodies, so has he picked up that bodies are embarrassing?
• Has he over-literalised previous ‘pants are private’ teaching and it needs to be revisited with greater subtlety?
• Has he witnessed other children in his class being reminded not to touch themselves in public so has formed the view that ‘touching is wrong / against the rules’?

For a genuinely ‘innocent’ child, penises should not be excessively mortifying!

(I mean, they shouldn’t be embarrassing for anyone, though ime it is entirely age appropriate for Y5 boys to snigger slightly when their teacher first says ‘penis’)

Eh I’d class my son as innocent but he would still be embarrassed about certain things. Like he doesn’t have a modesty level at home but equally would find someone saying penis or talking about that sort of thing as embarrassing outside of the home

Yeah I’d have said summer term y6. Tbh though my sons school do sex Ed together why the separation?

"For us it’s mainly (trying 🫣) to teach them it’s something boys do but it’s something you do in private."

I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but is this what you tell boys or do you also tell girls that "it’s something boys do" (I'm not too sure if you're single sex or not).

In that situation girls should also be being told that "it’s something girls do but it’s something you do in private."

Ah, ok.

I think it’s completely appropriate. They need to understand what is happening to their bodies , before it happens.

As someone who works with autistic adults , I think it’s even more important for those with additional needs to understand. I work with young adults who do not understand that it is something that is done in private - they have never been taught that, they have simply gone with what feels right and this causes issues. I also work with young adults women who are traumatised each month because they are getting periods and have no idea what is happening or why.

This has made me think. I’m genuinely thinking is it a part of his autism as even when he was tiny, just potty trained type age he was so so embarrassed about being seen in his pants, for YEARS! He’s only just grown out of that in day the past year where he will let you see him on his pants !! We’re not prudes at all, walk around naked in front of him etc, he sees his baby sisters in nappies, sees them being changed. Knows what’s periods are as I’ve always been open like that with him.