To dread what is expected of me when I am a grandparent

[Swan6]

It won't be long before grandchildren arrive in my life
Which I've always looked forward to
But there seems to be an air of expectations on Mumsnet from current parents towards expectations of grandparents,
attitudes I'm picking up on
,basically saying it was the grandparents own fault they don't see their grandchildren much ,as they are not offering childcare.
Parents were busy and wanted family time at weekends,and that didn't include grandparents,but if they wanted to see the child they could always offer childcare .
When I was a child ,1980s .. we visited the grandparents with our parents,maybe one afternoon a month at most .
My Grandparents were old and definitely didn't offer childcare to my parents.
When I had children I was a SAHP.. didn't have a choice ,as 2 of my DC had disabilities and were not in school.
But even if I hadn't been a SAHP ,there was no one to help out childcare wise .
No one ever offered any childcare,and it didn't occur to me to ask .
It's been really hard going raising my kids ,and I'm looking forward to the youngest being somewhat independent
The thought of being expected to do any of this again fills me with dread .
It seems like expectations on grandparents is huge
Mentally I've only just got through parenting unscathed ,I've nothing left to give ,if the expectations of me as a nana is to do 2 days a week childcare...I just haven't got it in me.
But if I don't ...
the cost of childcare will wipe out my DC being able to have children
I know they both assuming I will step up ..
And of course I will step up ..but oh ,I hope they leave it a good few years ..

Are they in stable relationships and financially secure because otherwise it’s probably not a great idea for them to be having children? Don’t be guilted into agreeing to do loads of free childcare for them. If they are both disabled might they be entitled to extra support with childcare costs from the state?

I wouldn’t expect grandparents to offer or give childcare, but they do have to accept that the will have to see the child less if they don’t. As in, just as a matter of fact if they don’t have the child one day a week then they’re unlikely to see the child for a whole day every week.

I can’t tell if the OP is suggesting that one weekend day a month isn’t enough for a grandparent to see the grandchild. To me that’s perfectly reasonable, and it could end up being less. Not as a punishment but just logistically in order to fit in a busy life.

The other thread I think you’re referring to was upset that the other grandparent saw the child more as they did childcare, and the other grandparents weren’t happy to only see the baby a few hours each month. That’s just hypocritical. You can’t say you don’t want to spend time with the baby and then be upset when you don’t get to spend time with the baby. Equally you’re perfectly entitled to say you don’t want to do childcare but there is a natural and unavoidable consequence of that…

I used to have lovely neighbours an elderly couple in their 70s. One of whom had heart problems.

They looked after their GGC 3 days a week, then 5.

They were happy to do it, but I felt it was really unkind of the GC to accept them doing that much childcare. The Great grand mother clearly struggled to get out with them.

I think you're right and there is more expectation and pressure that GPs have GC several days weekly or overnight and be involved. With the implied, but not spoken, threat caveat that if they refuse, then no particular effort will be made to bring the GC over or to accommodate visits.

I know one couple who refused point blank, but made up for it by paying half the private schooling fees. They obviously felt they had to do something reciprocal.

Perhaps offering to help pay childcare or nursery might be an alternative to having the GC, should the time come OP😬

That's fine if you live close.
Sadly I live 200+ miles away but I visit as often as I can and have regular video calls.
My granddaughter is only 1 but she recognises me and we reconnect each time I visit.
It's not always possible to live nearby but you can still build a relationship.

It just goes to show how different families are that you say three days a week are low expectations. Our children are 6 and 4 and we haven't had a full day of childcare since they were born. We're completely running on empty. MIL likes to come round ever so occasionally and after the initial hello sits playing games on her phone and occasionally regails us about how her mum used to come over every single day and help with cleaning and/or looking after the children.

Op I understand what you mean me and DH don’t have much help in terms of childcare all the school pick ups and drop offs are done between us. I’ve only now gone back to part time work because I can’t go full time yet due to my eldest being autistic and needing to drop them both off to school and pick them up as we have no family living close by.
My mum does her best to help out when she can she has and will come and stay with us for a week over the summer to help me while I work or just to have an extra pair of hands to take the kids out and do stuff.
my in-laws will occasionally offer to have them for a few hours so we can have a time away from the kids for five.

I have said that while I would offer to help out I would also make it clear that I wouldn’t be offering to do school runs everyday.
I am selfishly hopeful that by time we are in our 50s that we can start to go away on holidays together again and have us time back without needing to look after children so much, I would like to enjoy that part of my life before I am too frail after the hard work that it currently is like.

I don't think so. Just like the OP, grandparents in my childhood and that of my friends were people you visited around once a month. You'd go with your parents on a Sunday for tea, or if they had a car they'd come to you. They'd give you some pocket money and a bag of sweets and you'd maybe get a jumper granny had knitted for you. Grandparents definitely didn't do childcare back then, unless your mum had died or was very ill. They might very occasionally take you out for the day, but times were harder and money tighter back then, so that was subjective. But, we all dearly loved our grandparents and would visit them or phone/write to them once we were older. This relatively modern idea that grandparents have got to be utterly involved and "bonded" to grandkids is probably the reason for so many posts about interferring grandparents and weekend visits etc! It's not humanly possible to be "part of their every day lives" - or anyone's life - whilst at the same time taking a backseat.

You’re panicking over nothing much. You have the ability to set the standard that’s right for you. You went to see your grandparents once a month with your parents & they didn’t do childcare so there’s no expectation- if a once a month visit works. There’s no issue whatsoever.
it’s not a tit for tat (or it shouldn’t be) love & mutual respect is needed.
Decide for yourself what you’re willing to give and make that clear.
but you do also need to appreciate that they will want family time with their spouses and kids at weekend if they work and their kids are at childcare. So you must respect that.

You do (sadly ) also need to bear in mind that if you don’t do childcare- they will feel like you, exhausted in 20/25 odd years, at that point you would be expecting them ( who may be about to be grandparents themselves ) to provide you with a level of care that you may need.

No family should expect too much of each other and be willing and grateful to give and get all you can manage.

I guess it depends on what relationship you want with your GC and DC, and how much effort you're willing to put in to achieve that.

As you say, seeing grandparents sporadically for the odd afternoon does not cultivate a close relationship.

These days, parents have more to do and seemingly less time to do it in, time spent as Mum/Dad/kids together is far more limited and as a result, more of a precious commodity. If you want some of that time, you'll need to fit in with them to some extent.

Offering childcare is the logical way to do that, but it has to be reliable, regular etc or it is not really helping the parents in any significant way.

If you are not able to, or just don't want to offer regular, reliable childcare, there is nothing wrong in that, but you are less likely to get a close relationship with your GC as a result - thats not really some sort of threat or tool to blackmail GP's with it is just simple logistics.

For some people, their DC's lives and their own sync up fairly easily so GP's can spend time with GC's without getting underfoot/trashing tea time and bedtime routines or encroaching on family life, but I think that takes a lot of diplomacy, some incredible 'read the room' skills and a good dollop of luck.

I agree.

Surely it must depend on what age the grandparents are too. My kid's grandparents were in their 70s when my kids were born. I'd never have expected them to offer to mind small children. It would have been really selfish of me and exhausting for them.

This is borrowing trouble at bit, isn't it - they're not even expecting!

Mumsnet is a huge website with loads of contributors, all of whom have had a different family relationships and expectations. I seem to read just as many posts claiming grandparents aren't obliged to do anything that I do they must do x days a week childcare.

I love far from family, so have no horse in this race really. What I have observed, that is frustrating, is grandparents who did benefit from a lot of family help when their own children were small, and then want no part of it when their children want help. Of course they aren't obliged, but I can see how that feels unfair

Also you don't have to take care of them as a nursery alternative, but it's probably substantially true that the best grandparent relationships are those where the grandparents and children spend a lot of time together

My parents gave of similar vibes that they would be not up for being grandparents and would not help me out. Tut tuted and their friends children and grandchildren who have a set routine , tut tutted that mums friend couldn't meet her on said day because she had grandkids then.
I was very late to have a baby because I honestly felt even at 37 they would be annoyed and I was sure they would go into thier ' now sailaway remember we are not going to just hand out money to you' routine ( spoiler they haven't)
But now grandchild is here they are constantly phoning to see if we can drop round ! Or can they look after him for a bit.
So just be careful what impression you are giving off.

If I set some ground rules now ,as someone suggested
It could well mean they don't have any .

Better that they have the family they can afford based on the correct information than they have kids assuming some free childcare, though..

I do think you can have a great relationship without providing regular childcare but it means not acting “like a guest” ie if visiting help out a bit with playing or a nappy change or doing the dishes or taking a walk in the pram or an occasional babysit in their house when kids already asleep etc
none of these should be overly taxing but should mean you’re visits aren’t another chore.
working parents during the week are exhausted as you know and by the time you get home, it’s dinner, bath and bed - the last thing anyone wants at that point is a “visitor”
a gran that takes as she finds and mucks in or turns up with a casserole will usually be welcomed with open arms.
but sitting in your own home waiting to be visited will not a great relationship make purely in terms of time spent together.
that’s not a threat it’s more of a reality. I had to take my kids around 3 sets of grandparents (both parents on both sides divorced) all lovely people but the one who was closest to my kids is the one who came over and helped (not childcare) just helped and played and knew when to leave and was always available in an emergency.

Everybody is entitled to feel however they like, but wouldn’t it be better to discuss this with your own children when they’re expecting rather than make assumptions based on some posts you’ve seen on Mumsnet? If they are expecting childcare, maybe they don’t realise how you are feeling. What about the other grandparent(s)?

What you describe hasn’t been my experience at all. My Grandma (a widower) lived with us until I was 8. We were very close and I adored her. When she moved out I visited her at least twice a week and stayed over at least one night a week. When I moved away for Uni, I called her nearly every day. I was devastated when she died at 93 a few years ago.

As for DS (2.5) one of his grandparents (MIL) barely sees him. This isn’t because of childcare - I wouldn’t trust her on her own with him (there’s a backstory there, I’m not just being mean). My parents have DS to stay for the weekend roughly every fortnight. I’m not going to lie and say this isn’t appreciated - and sometimes we do arrange it so that it falls on a weekend when DH & I would like to see friends or celebrate a special occasion. But it’s very much at their behest, and not “childcare”. They ask to have him if I fail to arrange a date! and still go for month long holidays in the US twice a year, so spending time regularly with their grandson doesn’t impact on their lifestyle. He’s their only grandchild and they’re besotted with him.

I gave up a lucrative career to go self-employed so I could be at home with DS before he starts at a school nursery. Most of the other mums I know have put their children in private nurseries. I don’t really know anybody that expects their parents to do it all. Maybe we’re the outliers, but I wouldn’t put too much stock in a few forum posts.

I know they both assuming I will step up To be fair you must have somehow given them this impression.
I plan on being a loving grandparent not a child minder, and my DC understand that. I would not have wanted my DM /MIL to do childcare for me, as it would only be fair for them to dictate the ground rules in contrast to paying someone when I could ensure my wants and needs were considered.
My IL's did do the odd babysitting and were happy to do so but, not being just down the road, it was often easier to pay someone.
I think you need to make it clear to your DC that you won't be doing day to day child care so they can make decisions re. when to have babies and how many babies etc. Miscommunication is where these horrible situation's, often mentioned on here, arise.
My DSis is a devoted grandparent despite her GC being in a different continent. DSis keeps up with what's going on in their lives and writes letters/facetimes frequently.

There has to be acknowledgement that not all GPs are:

1. Maternally inclined. Many people, particularly women, had children in the past because that was what you did and they didn't have the choices people have now. And many didn't know until they had children, that actually, they'd possibly have preferred to be childless and would have thrived better if they had not become parents. Some had terrible PND that was totally unacknowledged and struggled through. Having now engaged with getting to know themselves again, and come through over 20+ years of parenting, it's natural that they would find the prospect of going back to scratch and having a baby all day mentally burdensome or even distressing. That doesn't mean they do not love their GC. It's an acknowledgement that they are not that mode. Sometimes they might be better helping with younger adolescents or teens.

1. Some GP are tired. Not every person has plenty of energy and good health in their later years

1. Even if they have no objection to providing childcare, they may just want more time during their last phase of life to enjoy things they want to do. If they want to go on that heavily discounted 3 week cruise in April, they don't want to have to effectively ask permission by factoring in what their children's plans for CC are first and feel guilty about their plans for themselves. They want their lives to be flexible to be able to still do spontaneous things. They don't want to still be planning activities around school holidays.

None of these things should mean that their inability or desire to provide child care for their GC, is used as an excuse to limit what time they can and are willing to spend with their GC.

Honestly, if my late parents or PIL Sat Me Down to Tell Me Expectations relating to a child that wasn’t even conceived yet, I’d be keeping a polite distance .

Struggling to follow your logic OP. It's like you've created this "poor me" problem out of nowhere - do you actually like your own children? I'm in my 60s I'd be falling over myself to help my DC in any way possible; I'd think it was a privilege to be involved and offer as much or as little a I could cope with. My health isn't great so probably be the latter, sadly. I think its your expectations that are the issue, as you've laid out here, not your own DCs' expectations which don't seem to have materialised yet in any case!

How sad to feel like this, when presumably there isn’t even a pregnancy yet!

If and when it happens, just make it clear what you will or won’t be doing.

How will you feel, I wonder, if it turns out that although a baby is very much wanted, it just doesn’t happen?

Instead of worrying about it Op why don't you have an honest discussion with your DC, if they're expecting more than you're willing to give it's best to be upfront now. It's not unreasonable for them to expect you'll want to see your DGC but it is if they think you'll be doing childcare from 6 to 6 five days a week

Childcare is really expensive and it’s hard to juggle parents working and the expenses until school. However, there are plenty of grandparents that don’t help or provide minimal help. None of my child’s grandparents provide regular childcare but they do offer to look date my child very occasionally so we can go on date nights etc which we massively appreciate. I would just make it clear to your children what you are willing/able to do as soon as possible. I knew we would have only very occasional help and planned around it. It’s worked out fine and tbh I think better than if grandparents had offered regular help as I think it would have caused tension.

Your grandchild would be entitled to 30 hours free childcare so I don't understand all these posts about having to do loads of childcare. Most mums I know don't work full time so 30 hours would cover a lot anyway. I would want to help out and look after my grandkids if I could and would do 1 day a week without question. I understand if the grandparents are working still or elderly but if fit and healthy why wouldn't you want to.

It’s means tested. Not everyone gets it.

@Swan6 your feelings are totally valid. Yes, childcare is expensive and mortgages/cost of living probably a higher proportion of earnings. BUT working parents get so much more financial help these days between maternity leave and free childcare hours etc that it probably balances out. And people feel entitled to more in terms of standard of living. So it seems completely fair to me that you are clear with your children that you won't be committing to regular childcare and they will need to consider their finances and lifestyle choices on that basis. Once any children are at school and more independent you might feel more inclined to help with after school sometimes and now and then in school holidays, but it does need to be your choice rather than theirs. If they actually want children they can make it work.