You think the British class system is a bit of a thing from the past, then you start looking into university’s and realise oh here it is, it’s still alive and kicking

[Ohhereiswhereitis]

like it’s just become a bit more hidden

@speroku so Oxbridge accd doesn't include bills?

If they have 8 week terma what do other places have ?

Weird, isn't it.

I'm first generation graduate, fsm family, father resented the education of women, I went to a bottom 10 university, but I graduated.

Why would I care if other people had more money and more help. I got my place, worked my arse off, got a 2:2 and then a job in a small tech start up, not a big established graduate channel but it was my way up..

What advantages others had was irrelevant. No point whining. No-one in business cares. You have to ignore all that and put all your energy into making the most of the hand you have been dealt.

i remember telling my mum I was thinking of going to a local college to do a more vocational version of the subject I went on to study at uni: she was horrified. I’d already been given an unconditional to a really good uni, and she was over the moon about it. Unfortunately she didn’t really have any advice about how to get a job after, and in hindsight I wish she / I has been more focused on that.

i don’t think my family is unique in that while they are aware that the trades can lead to really well paying jobs, these jobs do not have the prestige or status of a more academic role. Architect versus builder? Wastewater engineer versus plumber? Electronic engineer versus electrician? There’s a world of difference in the social status of these roles - for those (like my mum and most of my middle class friends and relatives) that care about that. Lots of people don’t, and that’s fine. But I know it would be hard to tell my mum that her grandson was ‘just’ going to be a plumber or a builder.

But those kids from poor backgrounds get full loan. Two of the flat mates my daughter lived with not only got full loan, but also some kind of bursaries for coming from single parent families/a poor performing school (can’t recall exact details as it was 12 years ago) one also got a free laptop.
Others in the group came from middle income families with household income over the threshold, but parents had high mortgage costs/other kids to support. Those kids got minimum loan and had to get P/t jobs to help support themselves because parents couldn’t afford to top up rent/loan to full amount.

You said that in a far more eloquent way than I did! My family have spent generations getting out of their working class status. My grandmother cried when her youngest siblings were born. They were twins, number 6&7 in the sibling order and my 14 year old granny didn’t know how they’d feed them. She went into live in service age 15 and cried again as she’d never had a bed to herself to sleep in.

4 generations later my kids are at private school, both will probably inherit a fair bit and are lucky enough to also get financial support. If my ds turns round and says he wants to be an electrician I know my Mum in particular would find that very hard.

DH and I see how much we pay electricians and can’t get them for our commercial business and thing there are some big business opportunities for practical skills mixed in with business skills.

I wonder where my great grandchildren will be in the class system?! Begrudging the great granny who encouraged a plumbing apprenticeship?!

Universities not university's

@rickyrickygrimes same in a way I remember my mum saying she bumped into some old school friends and she felt sorry for them because they didn't make it to uni.
They were actually in extremely lucrative industry and some are with millions and millions .

Most Cambridge Colleges have bursaries for poorer students eg my relative was met by her tutor on arrival and asked to complete a form detailing parental income and they were given money each term. So, 20 years ago my relation got £3,000 pa I think. Much richer colleges may well offer much more.

Separately, it’s only on MN that people deny the class system still exists.

I feel that it's only on MN that I come across this obsession with class.

I never do in RL. Maybe it is because we live in what would probably be seen as a middle class area and I mix with what would probably be seen as middle class people - through work, hobbies etc?

According to The Tab approximately 25% of students at DD's university (red brick RG) were privately educated, but state educated DD never had a chip on her shoulder about it and made friends with the people she liked regardless of their background.

Well med school was 46-48 weeks… very little opportunity for working either, as you were on placement in the last 3 years.

I suspect that quite a few of us do!

I don't think it's the same at all. Obviously you'll get rich people who think they're better than others and poor who will roll their eyes at that but I don't think it's the same. Just look at all the thread on here about what to wear or name your kids etc. In England you can't change your class. Trailer trash just isn't the same, that's not a class thing.

No. Shame on you. I come from disadvantage but my workplace is steeped in a culture where titles, money, RP and background is everything. I see this shit with my own eyes (and classist micro aggressions towards me) on the daily.

It's just because university is taking you out if a bubble. I had a super posh friend at uni who acted a bit like he was slumming it and meeting such varied and interesting people, because it was different than his bubble.

I think university really tries to make up as much of the difference as it's possible to do so, given all the inequality prior to that point. Unis get the blame for kids not even applying and there's a limit to how low you can offer someone disadvantaged a place without setting them up to fail.

It’s very naive IMO to think that ‘class’ doesn’t exist in other countries. It certainly exists in France and the US,

the French Revolution dismantled a lot of the class system. it's definitely not as entrenched.

No it’s not dead, you’re simply exposed to it at university, most likely for the first time on your life. First time working/middle class might meet, first time state and private educated intermix etc.

I don't even think it's a middle class thing as that has hollowed out somewhat. The average mc person isn't going to private school, it's the difference between the upper middle class and the middle class/working class.

Exactly England is the only place with a fully funded Royal family, can't get anymore entrenched than that! And the US is based on welcoming immigrants and that anyone can have the 'American Dream' @GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER you are naive, or maybe just delusional

I did a French exchange at 14, which involved a few days at the French girl’s school. One of her classmates came and spoke to me, and right afterwards my French half drew me aside and whispered, ‘Elle n’est pas fille comme nous! Sa mere est comtesse!’

Fortunately I have never come across this in any place I have worked (spanning over a 40+ year period)

I did a French exchange at 14, which involved a few days at the French girl’s school. One of her classmates came and spoke to me, and right afterwards my French half drew me aside and whispered, ‘Elle n’est pas fille comme nous! Sa mere est comtesse!’

well that proves it then! 🙄

A lot of people on here just don’t know how powerful being privileged is in our society. And that doesn’t mean having money although quite often they go together. It means, among other things, being able to work with and within the system.

Yes. And if you look at the university system, and the treasured Grand école, you can see the class system is there for all to see. I’d argue it is worse than the UK as a lot of it relies on things people would never even think of while we can safely judge people due to the makeup of our system. Our class system is clearly superior 👀

Exactly. The revolution may have done away with the old class system, but French society just found a whole new way to identify an elite - by education, intellect, religion and professional status rather than bloodline. Even as a foreigner i can see and have been told by friends / neighbours / colleagues which the elite schools are, which are the ‘acceptable’ subjects to study, which career paths take you into the elite. And while in theory the grandes écoles, for example, are open to anyone, in practice it’s only those who have the correct social, cultural and financial capital at their disposal who can gain access to them.

Same system, different criteria . It’s how human societies work.

Absolutely agree