You think the British class system is a bit of a thing from the past, then you start looking into university’s and realise oh here it is, it’s still alive and kicking

[Ohhereiswhereitis]

like it’s just become a bit more hidden

The English class system is spectacularly complicated and nuanced isn't it. But then it's had a thousand years to embed itself.
Main recollection for me was as the school gate , overheard a woman describing another parent as ' chippy'. I thought ' hang on , you're a member of the Labour Party FFS!'

Chippy . Great isn't it? If you protest , that's another sign of chippiness.

You are naive. You only need to look at the baby name thread, and see how people mock certain names as 'chavvy'

The class system has never left. If you honestly thought that, I’ve a bridge to sell you. Seriously, what made you think the class system had gone? It isn’t even hidden, it is so incredibly obvious.

Or how people mock "posh" names.
I'm not saying individuals don't feel that there is still a class divide, I'm saying that the research tells a different story.

I think it has shifted away from parents' jobs and background towards elites/plebs, where political views and attitudes are the defining traits of the each 'class'. Certainly the contempt from the elites, with their luxury beliefs, towards the plebs, with their non-PC views, is worse than ever.

Definitely. You don’t need to go as far as uni though, start by looking at secondaries. Especially in big cities. Clear divides.

Or in fully selective counties.

I’m shocked that you’re shocked at this. I mean, I didn’t grow up or go to uni in the UK. I have lived in 3 other (non-European) countries and I would say it’s exactly the same in other places.

In my home country, I’d say class is even more entrenched, but less openly acknowledged. If you grow up in a certain family in a particular area, you are expected to go to a certain university and you will join only certain social clubs there. There are universities that you pretty much only go to if you have a certain (minority) ethnic background. Growing up, we knew not to go to parties at those universities or even step foot on the campus because they were deemed ‘unsafe’.

There are very much universities for the elites, those that are more middle of the road, and those that are just holding pens for minimum wage workers. Even if you are poor or working class and go to an elite university (and many do, I consider myself very middle class now but come from a working class background, I went to fairly elite universities and got a PhD), still you needed to know how to ‘pass’.

British people are obsessed with class, but it’s really not a British thing at all.

You can take a horse to water.

Yep. When I went years ago, I was given a grant by the College for living costs, and the housing costs were subsidised. I was actually employed for a couple of hours a week by the College itself to get more money to me (library book shelving) and when I totally ran out of money towards the end of third year, they just gave me a cheque to see me through. The food in the Buttery is subsidised (as is the bar). There are loads of free clubs and events. Oxbridge is incredibly supportive to its students.

They also provide free counselling if you need support, and the personal tutor system is proper pastoral support - they bend over backwards to help you and direct your to Uni resources that you might need. They also allow those who cannot go home in vacations to stay in college accommodation during vacations (though you may have to move to a different room as some rooms are used for conference accommodation in the breaks).

Terms are only 8 weeks long, so they need your focus on learning. But they'll do everything possible to ensure that you can focus on the learning.

Oh yes, and to tie it into the OP - I was a free school meals kid from a state school in the North. I fit in just fine, and got along with people from state, private, home school. One guy was raised in an overseas jail...

Absolutely, it's only a thing in England. The fact a name means something is messed up in itself. The whole class thing, isn't a thing elsewhere. (Obviously other countries still have a rich and poor divide)

I also worked when at Oxford, they wanted you to be able to study but I needed the cash - they employed me in their development office stuffing envelopes and writing letters

Got a grant to help with some healthcare costs at the time

And the terms are so short I worked full time every summer / winter / Easter as well apart from my final year when I had exams - basically 5-6 months in total

This. Part of the reason I went to Oxford was the cheaper food and accommodation, and the fact that shorter terms meant more time for me to work in the vac. Plus I opted for my college in part because it was rich and had a big hardship fund.

I’m the daughter of a binman. No one in the family had ever stayed in education past 14. I was surrounded by ex-public schoolboys. It was fine. I wasn’t debugged and thrown in the Isis. Nor did I blag my way into my rich classmate’s country house, commit multiple murders abd then dance through it naked.

🤣🤣🤣

it is much cheaper to be a Cambridge (or Oxford) student. The accommodation gap between my dcs and those at, say, Exeter was huge. And the food was subsidised

But the food is subsidised by the students fees though no? I don't think they're paying for it out of their endowments. Typically they subsidise the food because they want to encourage students to eat in the dining hall. I couldn't afford that on a daily basis anyway so I guess I was actually financially worse off.

My experience of Oxford was different from PPs but I think experiences are very time and college-specific. The elitism when I was there was shocking and I was regularly mocked for my accent. It was pretty much impossible to break into the public school friendship cliques unless you were an attractive girl. Even some of the tutors and senior members of college were pretty classist. I hope it's changed since my time there.

ETA:
Nor did I blag my way into my rich classmate’s country house

I actually did do this and it was exactly like Saltburn. But I didn't murder anyone (or run around naked!).

All very well, but the plural of University is ‘Universities’!

It's not difficult to apply through ucas. Tbh I've just done it at 58 with brain fog. It costs though, presumably at school its free.

What do you mean by this?

I can’t speak for things now, but back when I was at university in the early 2010s, it was really in your face at my redbrick. It actually had a reputation as being one of the worst for this sort of thing (a ‘posh’ university). The student population was literally socially segregated along class lines.

Separately, it’s only on MN that people deny the class system still exists. It’s certainly impolite and inappropriate to discuss the class system IRL, but it doesn’t mean that it isn’t THERE.

It isn't there because all the research now says it isn't. The issue is wealth inequality, not class inequality. You have very wealthy WC and poor MC.
Wealth inequality is way more influential than class in 21st century.

Is it that it isn’t there or that what it looks like has changed? That some groups of people don’t want to talk about and acknowledge their privilege (because that’s a difficult thing to do in any arena).

To any extent, all this ‘is it about class or is it about money’ is layperson’s gerrymandering anyway, because what matters is the inequality and the impact of that.

If we distract with semantics we can avoid the reality and people don’t have to accept their privilege.

I’m surprised that you are surprised.

Every society divides itself into the elite and the non-elite, along varying lines and by varying criteria. Human societies are inherently unequal - that’s how we work. In Britain it used to be class that laid out the dividing lines: that has now been overtaken by money, wealth and influence. In France (where I live now) it’s family connections / networks, where you were educated (all the political and business elite have gone to the same few schools here) and religion. In other societies it might be how many cows you own or whatever. But it’s always there: we always find a way to establish a pecking order, with the haves on the top.

No you haven't read my reply.

Individuals may feel class divides still exist but all the social mobility research shows that it's wealth inequality that's the issue now, not class. Being born WC means you can still have wealthy parents who can buy you privilege and advantages, so the issue isn't class.

It probably doesn't exist to some mumsnetters because posters dont want to recognise themselves .

No, for the millionth time, all the recent social mobility research shows that it is wealth inequality that counts, not class.

Literally not going to keep repeating that.