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You think the British class system is a bit of a thing from the past, then you start looking into university’s and realise oh here it is, it’s still alive and kicking

182 replies

Ohhereiswhereitis · 17/07/2025 08:57

like it’s just become a bit more hidden

OP posts:
Overtheatlantic · 17/07/2025 09:02

Students? Staff? Teachers? You will have to be clearer.

Ohhereiswhereitis · 17/07/2025 09:04

Overtheatlantic · 17/07/2025 09:02

Students? Staff? Teachers? You will have to be clearer.

Just the whole thing,the parents. The students, the teachers the system the institutes themselves

esp when Looking at say top 10/20 unis in uk

OP posts:
Absentmindedsmile · 17/07/2025 09:05

Can you provide more detail, what do you mean?

smallglassbottle · 17/07/2025 09:10

Not really. Both my dcs went to top unis and we're just an ordinary family from a poor area.

What is apparent is the nepotism in the employment situation after university. Ds1 would love to get into politics, but has little chance due to this. He has a good job, but it's not where he'd ideally like to be. He has a First from Oxford and a Masters from another top uni. Isn't guaranteed to open doors though.

Radiatorvalves · 17/07/2025 09:22

Not sure I’d agree. But you’d have to elaborate as I’m not sure exactly what you mean. We are a fairly middle class family and DS has a range of friends at uni. He’s found it v hard to get an internship despite good A levels and good uni grades so far…. Difficult to know why but I think at least an element of it is large employers’ focus on social mobility. Not exactly your point, but I’d say it’s better than when I went to uni 35 years ago.

Bluevelvetsofa · 17/07/2025 09:27

Why do you think the class system is a thing from the past? The difference now from previously, is that social mobility has enabled people to move from one class to another.

There’s an agenda here, but without more information, we don’t know what it is.

Ohhereiswhereitis · 17/07/2025 09:44

Things like how many kids go to certain place, the percent that come from private education then another percent that come from grammar school the way certain schools teach the kids how to apply and get into these places

the way these kids even have had the confidence instilled into them that they’ve belong there

agree that nepotism and connections also plays a huge part in the after uni life

they way for some kids being bogged down 60/80k worth of uni debt is a lot worse for some than others

OP posts:
cupfinalchaos · 17/07/2025 09:47

The kids you are talking about have the confidence that they belong there as that's where their friends are heading so they see it as normal. Life after uni is largely influenced by connections with those without having to work much harder.

EveryKneeShallBow · 17/07/2025 09:51

I’m very working class. I got my degree with the OU whilst working full time and bringing up three kids. My daughter got an offer from St Andrews but wanted to go somewhere further from home. My son never went to uni and has a trade which gives him a very good lifestyle. It’s what you make it, really.

whitewinespritzerandastraw · 17/07/2025 09:51

Ohhereiswhereitis · 17/07/2025 09:44

Things like how many kids go to certain place, the percent that come from private education then another percent that come from grammar school the way certain schools teach the kids how to apply and get into these places

the way these kids even have had the confidence instilled into them that they’ve belong there

agree that nepotism and connections also plays a huge part in the after uni life

they way for some kids being bogged down 60/80k worth of uni debt is a lot worse for some than others

Instilling confidence - private schools so instilled confidence, but this isn’t exclusively a class thing. You may be working class but there’s nothing stopping you from instilling confidence in your kids.

Some of the most confident kids I know come from very working class roots, but have a strong sense of self and worth.

Of course the opposite is also often true and poverty and deprivation can have a hugely detrimental effect, and often does, but you are not blocked from raising confident kids due to class.

Being saddled with debt - well that’s just a money thing, not a class thing. The two aren’t quite the same. Some very wealthy people are working or lower middle class, they just have jobs with good incomes (a lot of the trades provide very good incomes). Likewise you get the posh poor, people from wealthy backgrounds where the money has dwindled. They still benefit from a middle class (or higher) upbringing, but the cash isn’t there.

r0ck · 17/07/2025 09:53

The thing that surprised me when we did a punting tour in Cambridge recently is that the guide said that Cambridge students are not allowed to work part-time alongside their studies, which I would think automatically excludes a % of the population that can't afford to live on student loans alone. So on that basis, provided that is indeed accurate it does seem a bit exclusionary.

Sundaybananas · 17/07/2025 09:54

Ohhereiswhereitis · 17/07/2025 09:44

Things like how many kids go to certain place, the percent that come from private education then another percent that come from grammar school the way certain schools teach the kids how to apply and get into these places

the way these kids even have had the confidence instilled into them that they’ve belong there

agree that nepotism and connections also plays a huge part in the after uni life

they way for some kids being bogged down 60/80k worth of uni debt is a lot worse for some than others

None of those things are class though. They are money.

DrLouiseJMoody · 17/07/2025 09:54

RG post-grad here (it's well-known to some how I lost my academic post but that's another story).

My experience was that the differences are less pronounced at UG than post-grad level, although privately educated students typically have more networking opportunities and connections that will set them up for employment irrespective of their degree quality. I taught many an expensively educated but lacking a spark type who didn't realise that their tutoring likely had more to do with their grades than genuine intelligence. They'd walk out with a middling 2:i into whatever job their parents had set them up with. It's more difficult for others and we shouldn't pretend otherwise, although it's improving.

At post-grad level? Well, it was made clear to me in subtle ways that I wasn't "polished" and not only did I need to be equal to others but better. So I got the distinction, passed without corrections, got the fellowship, the research project and was, when malicious complaints were made, on a fairly typical early career path. The people getting permanent posts were usually, although not always, of a certain background and the stats for working class post-grads and academics in my subject are dismal. It's predominantly white, relatively wealthy, men.

Meritocracy in academia is a myth. Yes, you need the smarts but you're largely banging on closed doors if you're a woman, disabled, working class. Sometimes I feel relieved to be out of a stifling environment. That and the fact universities have become supermarkets with staff being measured on so many things that research quality suffers.

YippieKayakOtherBuckets · 17/07/2025 09:56

TBH it takes a pretty high level of privilege to think that the class system is a thing of the past. Anyone who’s at the sharp end of it is in no doubt whatsoever that it endures.

MaturingCheeseball · 17/07/2025 09:57

r0ck · 17/07/2025 09:53

The thing that surprised me when we did a punting tour in Cambridge recently is that the guide said that Cambridge students are not allowed to work part-time alongside their studies, which I would think automatically excludes a % of the population that can't afford to live on student loans alone. So on that basis, provided that is indeed accurate it does seem a bit exclusionary.

Cambridge terms are shorter than those of other universities. The workload is far greater. And - very importantly - it is much cheaper to be a Cambridge (or Oxford) student. The accommodation gap between my dcs and those at, say, Exeter was huge. And the food was subsidised.

Coffeeishot · 17/07/2025 09:57

Ohhereiswhereitis · 17/07/2025 08:57

like it’s just become a bit more hidden

It really isn't hidden prestegious universities are the next step from private schooling i don't think that is "hidden"

AutoCorrupt · 17/07/2025 09:58

r0ck · 17/07/2025 09:53

The thing that surprised me when we did a punting tour in Cambridge recently is that the guide said that Cambridge students are not allowed to work part-time alongside their studies, which I would think automatically excludes a % of the population that can't afford to live on student loans alone. So on that basis, provided that is indeed accurate it does seem a bit exclusionary.

There’s also a lot of help. My nephew goes to Cambridge, he’s not privileged in any way, went to a comprehensive. His college at Cambridge give him 5k a year for going there.

dd’s ex bf went to Oxford, he’s was from a broken home, unemployed parents, comprehensive school. They let him stay foc at college in between terms as he couldn’t face going home. His college gave him money to buy a suit and a laptop.

GlastoNinja · 17/07/2025 09:59

Aah yes, I work in a city with two universities. The red brick one has a huge percentage of privately educated students, but is also a very wealthy university and pays for its own healthcare facilities and police officers.

The post 94 one is one of the most inclusive universities in the country and along with that come lots of health and social issues, but because they don’t attract to much funding there are more limited support services and certainly nothing like police or ring fenced healthcare.

It’s a great example of the self perpetuating nature of class / wealth / opportunity.

That said, there are opportunities for students from less privileged backgrounds to study at HE and to achieve well, they do (in my view) have to work harder though.

r0ck · 17/07/2025 10:00

AutoCorrupt · 17/07/2025 09:58

There’s also a lot of help. My nephew goes to Cambridge, he’s not privileged in any way, went to a comprehensive. His college at Cambridge give him 5k a year for going there.

dd’s ex bf went to Oxford, he’s was from a broken home, unemployed parents, comprehensive school. They let him stay foc at college in between terms as he couldn’t face going home. His college gave him money to buy a suit and a laptop.

Aha that makes more sense - so they give them a grant effectively so they don't have to work for extra income?

waxymoron · 17/07/2025 10:02

It's finances that are making it all more elitist again. How is a working class family on a low income, even with the child's full loa, ever expected to top up to a comfortable way of life for them? Our dd is going into her second year at an RG - the rent is nearly £900 a month and her loan may not even be full despite us having between us under 37k a year. Yes, she's working, yes we're doing everything that we can and we will...but it's impossible for some of her friends.
Poorer students will be priced out, exhausted out from having to work virtually full time and study and HE will become only available to the rich unless something changes

Absentmindedsmile · 17/07/2025 10:02

The UK today is one of the most open opportunity-filled places on earth. A child at school can achieve. If people hold grudges or have chips on shoulders, that’s more about them. There’s absolutely no reason why a child at a school in the uk today, can’t progress and achieve. Believe.

The problem we all (apart from the uber wealthy) face, is economics and financial inequality. Even with a good job and ‘good’ salary (what ever school you went to) - it’s sometimes not enough to buy a house and have holidays. That is not a class issue - it’s a financial inequality issue.

The uber wealthy (multi millionaires, billionaires) should be taxed properly but they’re not. The plebs (most of us) meanwhile pay more taxes, higher taxes, get paid less, pay higher prices for food, rent, mortgages, fuel etc.

Maybe you meant Wealth, rather than Class. In which case it makes sense. The richer your mum and dad are, the richer you’re going to be. Especially today, more than ever.

pourmeadrinkpls · 17/07/2025 10:04

Life is all about class and money. Why do you think it's only the rich that get richer?

twistyizzy · 17/07/2025 10:05

Absentmindedsmile · 17/07/2025 10:02

The UK today is one of the most open opportunity-filled places on earth. A child at school can achieve. If people hold grudges or have chips on shoulders, that’s more about them. There’s absolutely no reason why a child at a school in the uk today, can’t progress and achieve. Believe.

The problem we all (apart from the uber wealthy) face, is economics and financial inequality. Even with a good job and ‘good’ salary (what ever school you went to) - it’s sometimes not enough to buy a house and have holidays. That is not a class issue - it’s a financial inequality issue.

The uber wealthy (multi millionaires, billionaires) should be taxed properly but they’re not. The plebs (most of us) meanwhile pay more taxes, higher taxes, get paid less, pay higher prices for food, rent, mortgages, fuel etc.

Maybe you meant Wealth, rather than Class. In which case it makes sense. The richer your mum and dad are, the richer you’re going to be. Especially today, more than ever.

Edited

Exactly. It's a wealth issue, not a class issue

@Ohhereiswhereitis the most recent social mobility report clearly states that the old education ladder no longer exists (outside of London) and that the local economy and access to local services are now #1 factor. The sort of school you go to doesn't even factor.

The class system you are referring to ie of 1970s , no longer exists. What does exist instead is wealth inequality and that occurs across all sections of society.

GlastoNinja · 17/07/2025 10:12

Absentmindedsmile · 17/07/2025 10:02

The UK today is one of the most open opportunity-filled places on earth. A child at school can achieve. If people hold grudges or have chips on shoulders, that’s more about them. There’s absolutely no reason why a child at a school in the uk today, can’t progress and achieve. Believe.

The problem we all (apart from the uber wealthy) face, is economics and financial inequality. Even with a good job and ‘good’ salary (what ever school you went to) - it’s sometimes not enough to buy a house and have holidays. That is not a class issue - it’s a financial inequality issue.

The uber wealthy (multi millionaires, billionaires) should be taxed properly but they’re not. The plebs (most of us) meanwhile pay more taxes, higher taxes, get paid less, pay higher prices for food, rent, mortgages, fuel etc.

Maybe you meant Wealth, rather than Class. In which case it makes sense. The richer your mum and dad are, the richer you’re going to be. Especially today, more than ever.

Edited

I think your first paragraph is very naive. The reality of life for some people throws up huge barriers to achievement and whilst it is possible to achieve, it’s about so much more than believing.
Having no private space to study, coming from a family who are not familiar with the system, having to move school regularly because your housing situation is unstable, studying in your second language or against a backdrop of living somewhere that has really active county lines activity which is more ‘present’ than a library, poor access to public transport, the list goes on.
There are some amazing kids who are able to navigate this stuff and once they get to uni, there is some support available for some kids but by no means is it just about having a positive mental attitude.

Absentmindedsmile · 17/07/2025 10:14

GlastoNinja · 17/07/2025 10:12

I think your first paragraph is very naive. The reality of life for some people throws up huge barriers to achievement and whilst it is possible to achieve, it’s about so much more than believing.
Having no private space to study, coming from a family who are not familiar with the system, having to move school regularly because your housing situation is unstable, studying in your second language or against a backdrop of living somewhere that has really active county lines activity which is more ‘present’ than a library, poor access to public transport, the list goes on.
There are some amazing kids who are able to navigate this stuff and once they get to uni, there is some support available for some kids but by no means is it just about having a positive mental attitude.

Of course. I was more alluding to its not about ‘Class’, as the op was suggesting. The behaviours and events you’re talking about (and more) btw, can happen to any child from any background.

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