Why is everyone so angry at Labour?

[18thday]

From what I understand they tried to cut (essential) benefits and put the money somewhere else. And what happened was labour MPs got angry, threat of resulting poverty in the population etc. So labour backtracked.

My questions are

1. they backtracked so doesnt that mean they get it?

B) weren't they trying to find money to fill a hole that must be filled?

C) How else could have they raised the money? High taxed- bad people get very annoyed NHS cant handle more cuts.

I'm guessing they thought that forcing people off benefits would stimulate the economy by forcing people 'back into work'.

My boyfriend has a WFH job and that is all he could do as he disabled. Take WFH away and he wont be able to work.
He is not alone on that.

The issues are poor management not working from home.

Yes. This is what has happened with childcare places. Providers have just put their rates up.

Oh and I meant to say that yes, I do washing etc. BUT on my lunch break as do many.

Yes it is and it rarely comes close even with a successful claim pip claim. I think people have a hard time understanding how expensive non physical disabilities can be. You mentioned tax’s, my sister showed me her Uber account ( cheaper and more reliable than taxis where she lives) she spent over £5000 in 12 months on Ubers to go to work. Her disabilities are not physical. Without pip she couldn’t afford to work. She also pays for therapy and medication, and many other essential items and services. It’s not a race to the bottom, your dp’s taxis for essential journeys should have part of the cost paid for. Essential medical equipment should be paid for. The reason it isn’t, is not because people with non physical disabilities have money they don’t need.

Yes thats my take on it too, the mid 2010s was a great time for the country to borrow to invest, instead we borrowed to make up for terrible growth and the cuts actually cost us money, both back then and in the future.

Then instead of focusing on they country, they gave us Brexit, something that tied up the resources of Govt for years, still does.

Not too mention the loss to the economy and soaring migration.

Covid support, was given for far too long and with no checks, money handed out like confetti, then fraud written off.

Yes, previous goverments have overspent so now the grownups are in tbe room we desperately need to get a grip.

...and they didn't. They've just done exactly what the previous government did and kept on spending.

And it's unlikely any future goverment will have a majority like this one, so when is it going to be fixed? Never. It's a disaster. Takers are increasing fast and people putting in are declining and the system is accelerating that.

The fix is unpopular so only a government with a massive majority can fix that and the backbenchers fucked us all over.

Like the winter fuel allowance it was a badly thought out plan

many will absolutely support welfare changes but not as a quick fix to cut budgets

the stress this has caused so many vulnerable people has been so unfair this was highlighted again and again and they didn’t listen

leadership have to listen to their MP’s they have to listen to the public. they didn’t until knowing they would lose face

I think Starmer will learn from this he is well aware of the importance of keeping the party together

I think Starmer will learn from this he is well aware of the importance of keeping the party together

Yes. He's learned he can't make cuts. So the economy will keep going down the tubes, productivity will get worse and worse. Fewer people will be under more and more strain to support more and more people. If a government with a land slide can't fix it, nobody can. We're fucked.

And yes, that will keep his party together for a bit longer at the expense of all us.

For those in work it's well past time to leave this sinking ship.

You’re right.

Absolutely spot on.

I’d be tempted to expand the hostile media point to include their enthusiasm when it comes to whipping up hysteria the minute tax rises are mentioned. We seem to be incapable of having a mature conversation about this issue - everyone wants things to be better, everyone seems to accept ‘there is no money’, and yet a sensible conversation about who and how we tax is seemingly impossible.

I think they have been left with a huge huge mess from the disaster that was Boris et al and need to claw back money but agree the way they are doing it is a PR disaster.
Pensioners on pension credit would still get the winter warmer allowance but this wasn’t shouted about enough
I’m a “ pensioner “ but don’t think I should get extra money for heating just pay like everyone else and no I’m not wealthy I was on nurses wages all my life and I live in Scotland and it’s freezing!

Labour then shot themselves in the foot by saying they would be looking at PIP the tories would have called it “ helping people back to work “

Then people say they need to “ Fix “ the NHS are they joking ? Like ANY government could do that it’s limping along but it’s never going to be fixable if by that people mean no waiting times or operation lists
Then immigration again no country is solving this yet we expect Labour to suddenly fix this really ?
The anger comes from thinking Labour could wave a wand and fix stuff immediately I really think people have zero clue about the mess left behind.

Your point 5. is so important, @Doingnothingtoday . With the precarious state of the world, this is a golden opportunity to rejoin the EU. At this point, the UK would be welcomed back with open arms.

I really don’t understand why the government isn’t throwing everything at that opportunity. It would have the support of the majority of the population.

everyone wants things to be better, everyone seems to accept ‘there is no money’, and yet a sensible conversation about who and how we tax is seemingly impossible.

I agree, but part of that conversation needs to include over reliance on the state and it seems utterly impossible to discuss that without every group in receipt of benefits being in absolute uproar about how they can’t possibly be expected to work/work more or how unfair it is that they don’t get WFA, child benefit, help with childcare costs. Yes we need a pragmatic conversation about what goes into the pot, we also need one about what comes out and who it goes to.

The media have done this for years. Some were just more amenable when it was whipping up re the last gov.

Profit was the motivator then too.

It seems to me that generally speaking, people forget that it took the last Govt 14 years to trash the economy and they expect the current Govt to rectify every immediately without raising taxes. It's quite bizarre really. BTW, I didn't vote for this Govt but it has only been a year - give them a chance for goodness sake or go into politics yourselves and see if you can do better!

They dont need to fix the nhs need to fix social care which will then fix the nhs

The problem with PIP, is that a lot of people don't depend upon it to survive. It's not means tested at all. I know two separate people with genuine phyical disabilities, who are both able to WFH full time - one is a higher earner. Both spouses have got rid of their cars and use their partners, which they've got through the Mototbolity scheme as thei means of transport to work.

We're talking two fill time workers with a household income of around 100k - how is that right?

I also know other people who do depend on PIP as they are full time carers and carer's allowance is so pitiful, they could do without it. It's an absolute shit show.

Well yes and one of my disabled colleagues has a freedom pass. He has a physical disability but a very able and active person.

He's a solicitor. He can absolutely afford his fares to work and wfh a lot anyway.

PIP is for the extra costs that disability often brings. It is not to help people survive. It is to help them live independently. it is to level the field.

I'm addressing people who have said that people won't be able to survive without PIP.

I'm pretty sure it's not for their spouses to use to get to work, instead of their own car!

Yes, as long as they are named on the insurance then they can use it for work.

This is exactly the problem with this benefit! How is it right?!

They can use it for work though as bringing in money to the household benefits the disabled person. There are rules around it though.
How is that wrong?

Because many of these people are perfectly capable of affording a car, they just don't have one because they're getting a freebie!

I give up. It's this grabby, entitled attitude that's fucked this country.