Why is everyone so angry at Labour?

[18thday]

From what I understand they tried to cut (essential) benefits and put the money somewhere else. And what happened was labour MPs got angry, threat of resulting poverty in the population etc. So labour backtracked.

My questions are

1. they backtracked so doesnt that mean they get it?

B) weren't they trying to find money to fill a hole that must be filled?

C) How else could have they raised the money? High taxed- bad people get very annoyed NHS cant handle more cuts.

I'm guessing they thought that forcing people off benefits would stimulate the economy by forcing people 'back into work'.

Good luck if the pp wants that.

This all reminds me of Equitable Life. The members kept voting for maximum benefits and wouldn't reduce the amount they took out by a percentage.

So it folded and they all got nothing.

People are going to take and take out of the UK and ultimately it's going to collapse. Perhaps we're already past the tipping point.

Because the very people Labour are meant to support they have done the opposite its caused terrible worry and stress for so many people

There are other ways to save money or to accumulate money here is a few:

create laws that stops so many loop holes in the tax system - billions not millions could be accumulated

stop allowing foreign investors to buy up properties that sit empty that are then sold for huge profits - this has had such a negative impact in the major cities and this impacts the housing market for all

create reasonable tax for landlords and second homes/holiday homes

Stopping MP's having second jobs and sitting on boards. They are elected to represent their constituents not do the rounds on radio, tv, podcats (this shoud lbe limited) , promote their book, consultancy work

But all this is not quick fix but taking away winter fuel allowance and changing PIP easy targets and both done without full consultation beforehand

So disappointed in Labour the stress and harm they have caused some of the most vulnerable people in out society is not something I would have ever expected from a Labour government

We know that difficult decisions have to be made but for fuck sake do not target those with the least and the most vulnerable

And sadly I feel those leading the party are too self invested in themselves rather than the party. I absolutely understand why when people say they are all the same (and really they are talking about Conservatives and Labour)

If it was that simple the government would have done it.

Yes it feels like that. I suppose it will be a wake up call.

I know a 19 year old. Left school last summer with A levels. Never worked. Gets £200 month UC or job seekers whatever you want to call it. Sits playing games all day. Getting more and more depressed as he cannot get a job, won’t take on shift work, dealing with people, farm work etc etc. eventually he will be signed off with depression and anxiety. Very sad but we cannot financially sustain this as a country. We have 100% messed up. We need to get the young in work. It should be compulsory.

There are many reasons for the young struggling.

Firstly, far too many schools are no longer fit for purpose and have become exam factories where bullying is rife and there's no provision made for those who don't learn in "normal" ways who are made to feel failures, stupid harsh punishments for trivial "offences", etc. - the introversion often starts in secondary school when the "out there" extraverted pupils get all the attention and lessons/activities aimed at them!

Secondly, too much emphasis on anyone remotely successful with exams to go to university and manual skills/trades being looked down upon by teachers, parents, etc.

Thirdly, far too little support/encouragement for firms, especially smaller firms, to take on school leavers - too many employment rights, minimum wage, etc., and far too many hoops to jump through for the college based apprenticeship schemes.

Fourth, restrictions on underage working means far fewer students have jobs like bottle washers, hotel cleaning, shop work, paper deliveries, etc so students leave school with no work experience at all. That makes it a huge chasm when they come to the transition between school and workplace if they've literally done no work at all.

Fastest growing economy in G7 & debt lower than the highest under the Tories got too in 2023.
Private sector activity hasn't been dampened, Composite PMI is above 50pts, indicating overall positivity for June.

Not bad considering the NI rises were supposed to be the end of the UK!

Confidence isn't in all sectors bt after yesterdays debacle, markets back to normal and gilts back down.

Yes its Labours job now to fix the fundamentals but one cannot escape the simple fact that many of the problems the UK faces are down to the last Govt's decisions.

Did you look at growth for last month reported? Are you aware of impact of tariffs on why that previous figure was an outlier?

Tbf perhaps Labour don’t know either

Sits playing games all day

A girl at my daughter's primary school who's parents don't work was asked in my earshot what she wanted to do when she grows up.

She replied "I want to be a gamer, like my Dad."

Tax payer funded gaming is literally a valid career choice right now.

There may well be reasons, but that doesn’t mean it’s ok for our young people to move from school to benefits and rot in their rooms.

The trouble is how is Labour helping with any of this. NI policy impacting entry level jobs.

They can do it what makes you think they can not? No one is suggesting it shall be overnight

Labour are in a much better position that any recent government to implement really radical changes that can benefit the most vulnerable and increase quality of life for the many not for the few - they have a huge majority. Many Labour MP's are wanting to work for their constituents to help improve the lives of the less able, the vulnerable and lower paid in our society

Sadly I do not feel that is across the board for all Labour MP's particularly those making the decisions

Labour are in a much better position that any recent government to implement really radical changes that can benefit the most vulnerable and increase quality of life for the many not for the few - they have a huge majority.

Have you seen the news this week? They tried to implement radical changes to start sorting this out and their MPs stopped it.

Sadly a massive majority means nothing if your MPs are economically illiterate and disloyal.

Yes anything good is always an "outlier" isn't it?

I remember pro Labour people saying this whenever the Tories had good number too.

For me, i'll back anyone who gets the job done, unfortunately i lost all faith in the Tories over Brexit, Covid corruption and then Hunts cuts to NI, a disgraceful thing to do when our economy clearly cannot fund tax cuts, done to harm Labour, which actually has harmed the country.

NI changes have not impacted entry level jobs, the rate is pretty much static, slight falls in the spring, a slight rise at the start of the summer, all statistically normal.

Have you looked up the following month yet?

If you do want what the pp summarised, then good luck.

In a way just get over constant demands for higher spending / welfare and see what happens. At least people might learn from it.

Yes because their plans went against the very people the Labour Party are meant to represent. MP's were doing their job

Have you not been following the news yourself

They party have to work together, its no surprise that the larger the majority the harder the party can be to manage. But if you are not listening to your voters, you are not listening to the concerns of the most vulnerable I want MP's to stand up against party leadership and this is what they did

Poor planning poor implementing and poor communication. Last minute hatched plans to save face is not good enough. I vote Labour (and a party member) and I expect better from them

Ha ha i didn't know July's figures are out?

I've been on here a while, as have you, i do not remember any Tory supporters bothered about rising welfare spending, higher borrowing and cuts to defence under Sunak?

It was all total support.

But like many Tory supporters and ex Govt ministers, these concerns are now paramount.

Now call me cynical but one might think that these concerns aren't actually genuine?

The negative growth one last released did you manage to miss that?

Or just pretend as Labour do.

You were probably demanding higher spend in Covid. I thought it was a mistake, not many agreed just pro Labour posters wanting more then and more now.

People will keep demanding as you are and at this point let it happen. See what the markets do.

The people paying for all this are getting mighty fucked off at the sheer number of people living off handouts of other people’s money. Not to mention the government freely giving money, housing and other benefits away to people who are not British and have no right to it. They’ve exacerbated the boats crisis by making life too fucking cushty for those arriving, removing any disincentive to come. We cannot afford any of this, on any level. Unpleasant facts. We have drifted so far from being a country where any personal responsibility is promoted, and those who take it are repeatedly punished.

Now call me cynical but one might think that these concerns aren't actually genuine?

I don't think the government would have sacrificed all this political capital unless the concerns were genuine.

The government think this is deadly serious and they're right.

I think a lot of it harks back to the 80s/90s when people would "just go on the sick" and if you were unemployed you only had to attend the jobcentre once every 2 weeks and fill in any jobs you'd applied for in a little book, also back then you could actually look for and get a job at the jobcentre (now it seems only for sanctioning people!). Back then it was easier to "milk the system", as they say. I think a lot of people still have this mindset. Programmes like "Benefit Britain" only further fuel these beliefs hence many want people off benefits and back working, not realising that these days it's no walk in the park getting JSA or disability allowance as you have to jump through that many hoops to receive a pittance anyway so people are already less inclined to take the mick.

Personally lm annoyed at their flip flopping, makes them look weak and like they don't know what they are doing. There isn't any money, there hasn't been for sometime and that's just the way it is. Tough (and unpopular) decisions need to be made unfortunately. Pensioners who get more money than people on benefits or working full time shouldn't be getting the winter fuel payment -they've had a world of free stuff over the years and enoughs enough. The benefit system is bloated and too generous for some people. Spoiler: treatment for anxiety will involve exposure to things and you can't just not work forever with a diagnosis of depression and / or anxiety. I say that as someone who has to work full time despite poor physical and mental health, or l wouldn't be able to put the heating (can barely afford a few hours a day in the winter). Or l would end up homeless

The magic money tree l think! I'm confused about why people think there is lots of money spare -there isn't

"There's just not enough money"

Tax people like Rishi's wife.

The concept of billionaires is amoral and abject.

The concept of "trickle down economy" is the biggest scam on the working population.

ETA: instead, have us discussing if we should penalise disabled people or asylum seekers, while these vile human beings continue to profit. Oldest trick in the book