Why is everyone so angry at Labour?

[18thday]

From what I understand they tried to cut (essential) benefits and put the money somewhere else. And what happened was labour MPs got angry, threat of resulting poverty in the population etc. So labour backtracked.

My questions are

1. they backtracked so doesnt that mean they get it?

B) weren't they trying to find money to fill a hole that must be filled?

C) How else could have they raised the money? High taxed- bad people get very annoyed NHS cant handle more cuts.

I'm guessing they thought that forcing people off benefits would stimulate the economy by forcing people 'back into work'.

Are you talking about yourself here?

People with broken legs stuffing envelopes sounds like a very simplistic idea, but ok, I see what you mean.

I don't want to live in a world where people have to 'manage' with a broken leg or poor mental health.

I have always been happy to pay my taxes and know there is a safety net for me and everyone else.

Getting help from the NHS for poor mental health is extremely difficult. If there were not such long waiting lists for treatment and if more help was available people would get back to work quicker.

Insurance is not the cure all you think it is. Cover isn't available for pre existing conditions and in the US many people become bankrupt because insurance won't cover their claim.

Although PIP isn't an 'out of work benefit' and not means tested, most recipients of PIP don't work (about 15% do).

At what point would you stop? So 25% is fine. 50%? 80%? Where is the point where you regard the welfare spend as counter productive and unaffordable?

I would have stopped wasting money on things like Brexit, HS2, useless PPE, contracts for mates and invested money instead into quick access to treatment, health education and support for those who need getting back into work quickly.

At what point would you stop? So 25% is fine. 50%? 80%? Where is the point where you regard the welfare spend as counter productive and unaffordable?

I have just answered your question.

Now. It's counter productive and unaffordable now.

No you haven't.

Agree. You need a lot of people paying in and few people taking out.

When you get that balance wrong, as we self evidently have, things go south fast, as they self evidently are.

Well obviously the ultimate goal would be the lowest possible spend, but that isn't going to happen without investment. Better, more clever investment is needed, not just mopping up, but productive, preventative.

Where would you stop it @EaglesSwim ?

And how would you feel if you or your child needed help and you were the told the person in the queue ahead of you had just had the last penny from the pot?
How would you have felt if when you got to A&E the door was closed?

Or you need to spend wiser.

Yes exactly this is whats worrying me. We’ve expanded welfare so much we now have a large cohort of citizens who will vote themselves more without stopping to think about what happens when it becomes unaffordable. By that point you would have anyone with the means to do so leaving or hiding their money from the tax man. Businesses are struggling under additional taxation already to feed this beast. I mean who genuinely thinks this can carry on without very painful consequences

Stop dodging.

You're happy with 25%. 100% is clearly impossible so somewhere between those two numbers is your limit. What is it?

The red light is flashing on this one. Borrowing is incredibly high. Labour rebels wanting more spending and ready to hollow out bills.

Goodness, you're bossy and demanding.

I don't have a figure because I'm a retired gardener not Chancellor of the Exchequer. I'm literally just some women who votes for a party that I believe will have the answers and also some knowledge creativity on how to spend the budget in a productive way and the compassion to do that fairly.

You didn't give a figure either. What's yours?

No need to be personal I'm just talking posters in general. .

Ah right. No God forbid it gets personal ay.

I think we are all saying we need to spend wisely. Not giving PIP to people in well paid jobs for example.

No, we need economic growth instead. That will naturally increase the taxes generated. Trouble is that Labour hate business so the idea of doing things to increase business activity is alien to them. As seen by Rachel's actions, they only regard business as something to tax!

I don't have a figure because I'm a retired gardener not Chancellor of the Exchequer

So how can you be so sure 25% is OK? How can you be so sure the projected increase to near 50% is fine?

Plus, the Chancellor or Exchequer has told you 25% is way too many! So you cite her as an authority whist also disagreeing with her calculations!

If they won’t cut anything it’s higher taxes and more borrowing. So irresponsible.

The red light is flashing on this one. Borrowing is incredibly high. Labour rebels wanting more spending and ready to hollow out bills

Borrowing is incredibly high because the Tories kept borrowing more and more, the costs to service much of this debt is down to Truss, gilt yields went from 1.5% to 4.5% because of her, they have stayed there.
Debt went from 65% of GDP in 2010 to over 97% in 2023, it has fallen back slightly to 96%

Plenty of reasons why, Ukraine & Covid but also Brexit and the rise in disability claimants is down to Tory decisions.

Rebel MPs want help given to the blind, to people who cannot wash below the waist, the bill as it was, is inhuman.

Lab were right to recognise the problem but came up with the wrong solution.

Yup yup. I paid for my own therapy as we have a comfortable household income, I’d have been appalled that anyone suggest I claim any kind of benefit just because I can. I suggested elsewhere that mental health therapy vouchers should be issued so people can choose their own therapist but payment goes directly to psychological help. Imagine claims would drop like a stone tbh.

I didn’t see many on mn want lower spending during the pandemic.

But you’ve got to move on to who is in power now and the decisions they’re actually making.

Economic reality will bite if borrowing goes up or taxes are higher still.

Ah so the solution is to borrow more and to dampen private sector activity and expand welfare.