Why have so many kids if you're struggling so much already?

[AmusedTaupePlayer]

Not sure where to post this, but I know someone who I'm really trying to understand. She has autism and a number of serious mental health diagnoses. She's estranged from her abusive family, can't work due to disability, and her relationship with the kids' father has ended.
She now has four children, at least one of whom is also disabled (epilepsy), and I just can’t wrap my head around it. Raising even one child is hard enough, let alone four, and with so many challenges already stacked against you — why bring children into that?
I'm not judging her as a person — I think she’s doing her best — but I keep wondering whether it's fair on the kids when you know you can’t offer stability or support, especially if you’re also navigating trauma yourself.
Is it naive of me to think people should try to get themselves into a stable place before bringing children into the mix? Am I missing something? Genuinely open to different views.

No idea tbh, I do wonder myself if people on some level think that more children equals more love or something. Never had the urge to have a large family, I can imagine a large family could be lovely but once you have one or two the reality quickly hits you in the face that actually it’s a bit hard.

You'll get flames for this but of course you're right. Having children is an intrinsically selfish act and it is even more selfish when you can't provide a stable, loving home for them. This is why we have cycles of trauma that are intergenerational and really hard to break but it does seem that some people don't ever really try.

Some people will see the mother as a victim which she of course is to some extent but she is making her children into victims too and that is completely inexcusable

You are of course right, although I’m sure it’s not a popular statement to make out loud, many others will agree privately. People who don’t have the resources to provide a stable life for their children shouldn’t have them, and definitely shouldn’t have 4. I don’t even mean monetary resources, I mean health, environment, personality, relationship status.

Objectively you're right, but from what you say about her life experiences it's not too difficult to see why this woman is surrounding herself with wee people to love, and who can love her, is it?

It comes down to education and lack of it a lot of the time to be honest. Lack of education of contraceptives, finances, inability to see the long term effects etc.

I can understand objectively the desire to try to create a family that defies your previous experience of one. However, the reality is rarely that. It is very hard to watch people pile child on top of child when they are unable to meet their needs. And those children will repeat the cycle. I’m not sure what the solution is though.

It's the million pounds question, OP. It should be a no-brainer but time and time again, people do the same thing and you'll find others (including ones coming into this thread to flame you) who defend, support and enable them.

No it's not fair on the children. They're the victims of these irresponsible adults who go on to have children or more AFTER they've been struggling.

Wholeheartedly agree. The answer is a complex and multi-faceted approach to addressing intergenerational trauma in children and young people as well as adults so that we can break this cycle of children being failed by adults ad then becoming adults with maladaptive coping strategies who fall into the same cycle.

I think there might be a clue in the she has a number of serious mental health diagnoses'. It doesn't sound like she is in a place to always make the best decisions.

You are right people shouldn't be having children if they can't cope, however women having baby after baby like this is more complex than.just "shouldn't " .

Well said.

OP asks if she's 'missing something'.

I'd say yes, empathy and understanding.

Which the OP knows full well, but still seems to expect this woman to make informed decisions, regarding having children. Talk about faux naivety, and being totally disingenuous.

I have an acquaintance in a similar boat altho still with her DH. And more children. Living in a tiny, cramped house full of hoarded rubbish, 3 older children with carer status, very little outside help but a desperate desire to have it. Honestly, I’ve distanced myself. Expecting other people to provide the birthday gifts, using food banks while funding expensive hobbies, in debt for said hobbies and continuing to have babies for the older kids to look after is just something I can’t get my head round. And of course the eldest dc is a girl expected to carry all the weight her parents can’t. When she ages out and runs in a couple of years it will all fall apart.

It is certainly an urge to keep expanding the family love, as well as an obsession with babies which fades as they hit toddlerhood but I think there’s something even deeper than that, and so sad for the kids.

I do wonder as well if professionals (thinking HCP’s etc) are allowed to have a chat with someone who’s just had their second or third and gently suggest not having more for a while. I guess these days it would be frowned upon.

After I had my only child by obstetrician gave me a very firm chat about contraception (it was made clear I would be going on some form of contraception to ensure I didn’t risk a pregnancy too soon, godbless that woman she really cared about her patients). and spacing, I think it’s her standard chat she gives to everyone.

The desire to have kids is really strong. Look at all the threads where OPs are encouraged to have kids even in the most unsuitable circumstances. The women’s desire to have a kid is often put above what’s best for a child. I’m particularly ‘judgey’ about women who go ahead with pregnancies where they know the father or ex father is a bad or abusive person. Why would you do that to a kid.

Maybe employ some critical thinking skills. It is not difficult to understand the numerous reasons that may be underlying people's circumstances.

Presumably when she had the children she was in a loving and stable relationship and possibly the disability in one of her children wasn’t apparent? You sound a bit limited in your thinking and very anti-larger familiar all regardless of divorce/disablity/ill health.

This bothers me quite a lot, women are often encouraged to continue a pregnancy by posters without thinking about what happens post birth. It seems really irresponsible.

I think some women get kind of addicted to having babies. You get lots of attention and care and appointments and tiny babies are very sweet. It's pretty sad as it probably shows they don't get much care or attention in the rest of their lives and ultimately isn't great for the children.

I think think should expand “pause” tbh. It’s usually only for women who have had multiple children removed but clearly there are women who could do with a bit of help figuring their stuff out.

Is it naive of me to think people should try to get themselves into a stable place before bringing children into the mix? I'd say deliberately faux naive.

Am I missing something? You seem not to be factoring in all the alleged background info you typed out in your opening paragraph.

Genuinely open to different views. Seriously doubt this!

The answer to why is: humans are complicated emotional creatures. There are loads of books about human nature you could read, but carry on judging if you prefer that.

I have 4 DC and ADHD and autism.
To be 100% honest,if I had known I had autism as a child and teenager ,my life would of been so different
I definitely would not of had children or got married
I just kept getting told I had anxiety and depression
It's really hard holding it all together
Maybe this lady didn't find out she had autism untill after she had children
I was diagnosed age 50..so much to ate to do what was rightly for me ,or to understand myself enough to know what I would and wouldn't be able to cope with .
My dc are adults now ,the two without autism have fantastic jobs and have bought their own homes .
The two with autism,need a lot of care from me .
If the lady is around my age ,a child of the 1970s or 1980s ,schools were not looking for autism in us girls ,as long as we were quiet in class all was good .
If the lady is anything like me ,she will absolutely be doing the very best she can ..I'm sure she will be glad of any support offered

So if you have asd, MH difficulties or an abusive family you don't even see you shouldn't have kids?

presumably she didn't have a crystal ball to know a child would have epilepsy or her relationship would break down.

did she know about asd/MH diagnosis before she had children? Was she estranged from her family before hand? Many people don't realise how abusive their family are until they have children of their own or get diagnosed until later in life.

you don't seem to be concerned about any neglect or her care of the children so sounds like she's doing fine despite her challenging circumstances (waits for drip feed)

I don't know why you have presumed that the relationship with the father was loving and stable when she had all four children? In my experience this is rarely the case in scenarios like this. Many women choose to have more and more children knowing full well that the relationship is seriously troubled and they are struggling to meet the needs of their existing children in any sense (financially, emotionally). Having more and more babies in the absolute focus.

I think having a large family is hugely risky for anyone. You are putting yourself in a situation where you are responsible for a number of children that are completely dependent on you to meet their wants and needs. If you suffer a relationship breakdown, mental/physical health crisis or lose your job then you are going to struggle much more than a family that have stuck at one or two children. It's a fact of life! I think we all understand this when it comes to pets and would understand that someone with 5 or 10 dogs is probably an irresponsible owner so why can't we just call a spade a spade when it comes to kids?

All very well to have that opinion but she likely isn't thinking as clearly as someone with an abusive family, autism and mental health issues.