Why have so many kids if you're struggling so much already?

[AmusedTaupePlayer]

Not sure where to post this, but I know someone who I'm really trying to understand. She has autism and a number of serious mental health diagnoses. She's estranged from her abusive family, can't work due to disability, and her relationship with the kids' father has ended.
She now has four children, at least one of whom is also disabled (epilepsy), and I just can’t wrap my head around it. Raising even one child is hard enough, let alone four, and with so many challenges already stacked against you — why bring children into that?
I'm not judging her as a person — I think she’s doing her best — but I keep wondering whether it's fair on the kids when you know you can’t offer stability or support, especially if you’re also navigating trauma yourself.
Is it naive of me to think people should try to get themselves into a stable place before bringing children into the mix? Am I missing something? Genuinely open to different views.

I don't get it either. I only had 2 kids. Had them close together, so they were only one school year apart. That got the nappy stage over at the same time, and the school run didn't go on too long. I could have afforded way more kids, but 2 seemed enough to me. How are you meant to raise, say 6, is beyond me!

Being a teacher in a class of 30 children is not the same as having many children yourself. 🙄 I can't believe you'd even make that comparison.

No, it's not always fun for the kids either. I know/have known many families over the years who had 4+ children (some have 5, 6, 7 children, several even more!) and most of them hated having such a full house, no privacy, no peace, nowhere quiet to study, and always having to share a bedroom with at least 2 siblings. The parents hardly paid any individual child any attention because there were so many of them. So many of the children felt neglected emotionally, and never had a good relationship with either parent - if any at all!

Not saying ALL families with 4 or 5 or more children are going to be like this, but many are. We lived in a nice 4 bed detached house when ours were growing (2 DC close in age,) and it was roomy and peaceful and my DC had their own bedrooms. Many of their friends with 3 or more siblings used to love coming to our house, for the peace, and the calm, and because we (me and DH) paid more attention to them than their own parents, and listened to them more and talked to them more.

Even some years later when we bumped into them, they would reminisce about the days when they used to come to ours, and how much they loved it.

Some women with childhood trauma love the baby stage as the baby is completely dependent on them, doesn't argue etc. It makes them feel loved and needed. Once the child starts to grow they want that baby stage again, so have another kid, and the older children are left to basically raise themselves. My friends mum was a classic example of someone neglected in her childhood who went on to do this with her own kids. My friend is one of seven ( a few different dads) but luckily able to recognise that all of this was messed up and is trying to live her life differently.

I didn't say that it did mean that. Many people deal with it in unhealthy ways which have no bearing on children or their home life at all. So avoiding dealing with trauma, helping others, working, exercising etc is all unhealthy ways of dealing with trauma. They most certainly can be.

There is no science behind mental health. You are using stigma and stereotypes and Mind also uses the same stigma too.

Nope it doesn't often cause a link at all. The stable theory is from the 4 humours! That is where that theory has come from! Again there is no science behind mental health only stigma. The whole field is built on and survives because of stigma.

Could you please answer my question I asked?

Is she actually choosing it or is it just that she isn’t preventing it? Because for someone with serious mental health problems, those two are very different.

I wasn't making a comparison. I can't believe you'd think that.

However as someone with trauma I provide more stability for 30 kids than most of the 40+ parents do. Odd that!

Yep this. ^ Same kind of people who poke at women with an only child, demanding to know when they are having another one, because 'you can't have her with no brothers or sisters' or 'he'll be soooo lonely!' or 'she'll be spoilt!' and 'who's he going to play with?!'

So many unwarranted and provocative and prying opinions from nosey busy bodies who have no clue why you're not having another baby, and who will have no involvement in raising them. YOU will be the one looking after them, changing nappies, having sleepless nights, doing the school run, often having to juggle your career around them, and having 18-20 years or more of your life where you are responsible for this child (that other people want you to have!) Batshit!

Sorry, I misread your post! books a Specsavers appointment.

Honestly and unpopular view points is I don't think some people should have children full stop but there is nothing to stop them just a repeat cycle over and over again.

My DN birth mother is like this 6 kids all taken into care due to her inability to look after for them and volatile MH issues and it just keeps repeating. He doesn't even know most of his half siblings.
It's the children that suffer and creates a loop of the same thing. He's lucky and had kinship adoption by my parents sadly his siblings haven't been so lucky (they are not my B children).

Likewise friends now have 4 adopted children (all full siblings) to drug addiction parents. Each time they deal with a baby/toddler on withdrawal, each time they get called would they consider having the sibling. They don't have any space for anymore but it's them left feeling horrendous that they are creating a 2 tier life for siblings (they said no to the 5th sibling sadly the 5th had complications and passed away).

No worries! I was just asking a question as the other poster was implying that anyone with trauma is unstable which kind of implies that I am a risk to the kids I teach.

It's a tricky one as I imagine that some of her health problems could have happened after all 4 children were born. Or maybe at least one was a suprise pregnancy. I'm autistic and struggle with anxiety so decided to only have one child. Luckily my dh was happy with that though so it was a fairly easy decision for both of us. Personally I wouldn't have had 4 children if I was her but it's very easy to make judgments about others.

Thank you. Yeah sorry - again. Of course you are not a danger to the children you teach!

Yes, but this suggests you didn't enjoy having young children as you wanted to rush through that stage of your life. Lots love having children. I love babies in nappies, being with my little ones, I love the school runs with my older 2 children and can't wait to re-start with my youngest. I was a little sad we've both needed to work so much to afford it but wouldn't change it for the world.

@Fetaface I mentioned trauma early on but referenced intergenerational trauma and how it's understandable that someone who has been abused and abandoned might want to create a loving family. As someone who's had therapy for cPTSD and is a (I think!) decent parent, I certainly didn't mean to imply that people who have experienced trauma shouldn't have children, just that having lots of babies to fill a void when you're otherwise not coping is a maladaptive coping strategy that is repeated throughout generations if there's not support or opportunity to break out of the cycle

Well, before making any judgement about the woman in question, I'd want to know:

When she was diagnosed with autism- before or after her DC

When her disabled child was diagnosed with epilepsy- before or after #4 was born

What her relationship with XH was like- was he abusive or coercive? Autistic women are extremely vulnerable to abuse in relationships, even more so if they don't even realise they're autistic, and when they have comorbid MH issues. Do you know that her XH didn't pressure her into having babies and then fuck off?

Why she went NC with her family. I would guess it's because they weren't very nice to her growing up, so she may well be carrying a load of trauma/a terrible sense of self worth/ a misguided idea of what adults "should" do and/ or what a healthy relationship looks like.

Whether she's a good parent. She might be great, for all we know from the OP.

But you all crack on with slagging her - and others like her- off for "popping out babies" 🙄

I believe you're right. My sister had an obsession with having a girl. It didn't matter that she had two wonderful, happy, healthy boys, she wanted a girl. All of her pregnancies were high risk and she barely survived the second boy's birth, but she went on and on having several miscarriages both before, inbetween and after the boys, in the end BIL had the snip as he couldn't take the games of russian roullette every pregnancy brought with it. Thankfully BIL was a good dad and pretty much raised them once they reached 4 or 5 when she lost interest in them because she could no longer pretend they were girls by keeping their hair long and dressing them in gender neutral clothes.

It does. It suggests that poster was desperate to get the first 10 or so years over with asap.

She’s not a well woman and that plays in to the fact that her decisions are not very realistic …

It’s about attachment and love. Children who grew up with insecure attachment tend to seek out undifferentiated love as adults. It can’t be solved with education alone because it’s not really about a lack of knowledge.

Which is stereotypical! There is no indication that this person is using babies as a coping strategy at all just because they have lots of children and have trauma doesn't mean that is the case. Again that is a stereotype.

People who have been abused can want to create a loving family but that doesn't mean it is intergenerational trauma or anything linked to it. People can want that anyway regardless.

What makes you think that this person is using babies to fill a void as nothing implies this other than stereotypes and stigma.

Biology. Some women - myself included have a longing and an urge to have more children. Can't explain it more than that but it's a natural biological need, that I have to fight against. Not all women fell the same I know this but some most definitely do.

God knows but I did it as everything was fine until it wasn't.
One child has ADHD and can be an absolute nightmare but by the time it got so bad we had 4 and his issues only became worse in adolescence. If I knew life could be so stressful maybe I wouldn't of had 4 children. Hindsight is a wonderful thing 🤣

I’m aware, she posted on a public forum, and I relayed my experience of parenting while living with various health conditions, which has also brought judgement and derision from others. Whilst my experience is different from the original posters “friend” I believe it is still relevant and the point of my post remains; no one has the right to tell someone else that they should or should not parent. Feel free to scroll on by if you disagree.