Lovely man, who on the face of it doesn't have a lot going for him.

[Wayetblue]

Bear with me and I'll try and explain.

I'm a middle aged woman, financially and practically independent. I don't "need" a man and tbh in many ways prefer life without one, I certainly wasn't looking for one.

Then I met this man through a sport. One of many things I took up to "rebuild" and create this independent life for myself.

He's also middle aged, a bit younger than me, never married, no kids (which whilst may raise eyebrows has its pluses!) does some interesting work, but only works enough to keep the wolf from the door and pay for his trips etc, doesn't plan for the future or own his home, for example. He has a good single lifestyle, nice car and holidays, and pays his way, but he's not well set up. But I'm not looking for a financially sound life partner to.e.g. have a family with.

So, there's the cons. On the plus side, he's keen to see me, makes plans and sticks to them, completely reliable, i never feel anxious a out whether he'll call, doesnt play games, does loads of the "wife work", the admin of arranging a weekend away or a night out with friends. He has loads of ideas for fun things to do and makes them happen.

He manages to respect my independence and is happy for me to do things alone or with friends (including male friends) at the same time as letting me know he loves being with me. He manages to achieve that without ever making me feel bad for doing things without him, which may well be as it should be but I don't think that's always the case?

He's very supportive about anything I want to achieve and being with him is just comfortable. We have fun together and do interesting things, but doing "nothing" together is lovely too. He's also very kind to others. Through the sport we know some unusual people, e.g a young man with learning difficulties and some people with autism. He always goes out of his way to talk to those that others ignore, and include them in plans.

This weekend was the anniversary of a very difficult date for me. We went to a "thing" with a lot of mutual friends and aquaintances. It's what he loves, being with people, I find it more difficult, although I enjoy it once I'm there, I have to work at it, and this wasn't a good day for me, so I wasn't feeling great about it. We arrived together, he said some kind words and then we circulated seperately. It was all good, and every time I started to struggle he popped up by my shoulder to check on me, either chat with me for a bit or support the conversation I was having. It was like he was completely tuned into what I needed in that moment.

So, outwardly he's not a good catch, but things have been so good.

Now having written this out I realise my concerns are ridiculous, and he adds so much to my life, but I still think many on MN would think he's one to throw back because financially, I'm likely to carry the load, especially, as we approach old age/retirement.

I haven't really asked, but I suspect his retirement plans are mostly based on an anticipated inheritance. I don't love that about him, but it will be significant, even if his parent lives long and needs a lot of care,so I can kind of see why he might not worry about it, and the way he lives for the moment is one of the things that makes him good for me at this stage in life.

Never married, no kids
Does some interesting work
Has nice car and holidays and pays his way
He's keen to see me, makes plans and sticks to them
Completely reliable
Doesn't play games, does loads of the "wife work", the admin of arranging a weekend away or a night out with friends.
He has loads of ideas for fun things to do and makes them happen.
He manages to respect my independence and is happy for me to do things alone or with friends (including male friends) at the same time as letting me know he loves being with me.
He's very supportive about anything I want to achieve and being with him is just comfortable.
We have fun together and do interesting things, but doing "nothing" together is lovely too. He's also very kind to others.
Through the sport we know some unusual people, e.g a young man with learning difficulties and some people with autism. He always goes out of his way to talk to those that others ignore, and include them in plans.
This weekend was the anniversary of a very difficult date for me. We went to a "thing" with a lot of mutual friends and acquaintances. Every time I started to struggle he popped up by my shoulder to check on me, either chat with me for a bit or support the conversation I was having. It was like he was completely tuned into what I needed in that moment.

So, outwardly he's not a good catch

Read all of the above back to yourself OP 😂and then I would change that sentence to "outwardly he's a very good catch"!!!

A man who respects you, is reliable, doesn't play games and is supportive. All HUGE green flags. My DH has all of these qualities and honestly he has changed me so much as a person in the best ways. I can just switch off with him as I know he's there for me always (if that makes sense?!) and he just relaxes me completely.

The only "cons" I can see are that he doesn't own his own home (many people - men especially - move back in with their parents following a break up so not that unusual) and is slightly shorter than you!!!

Potential cocklodger territory, especially as you said he’s driven the relationship forward quicker than you anticipated.

Maybe slow things down a little. Don’t be so available for him to pop in. Sounds like he’s moving in by stealth.

This all good.

Im not trying to make a value judgment on whether someone is Good or Bad.

Im just saying the qualities you list him as having are pretty frivolous. Like, great: he's gregarious. What else? You're describing him as someone who is rock sure and steady, but really if you read back over your OP, you're just talking about someone who is a social butterfly with a sunny disposition, which is great, but it doesn't actually speak to the fundamental base qualities that make a good partner. That's just my opinion though.

I mean, I only know what he tells me, but he pays his parents roughly what it would cost to have a room in a houseshare round here, and pays for their Sky and Internet (because he needs reliable Internet for work) and sees to all his own food, does his own laundry.

I'm sure his mum does more than her share of looking after him because she's a sweet mum of that era and that's what she does (as does mine tbf, even though I don't live with her) but he waters the garden, looks after the cat when they're away, lends them his car when theirs is in the garage, takes dad to medical appointments. Clearly he doesn't "do" as much as if it were his house, but he is ready and willing to contribute. He doesn't really have practical skills but he's very good and "grown up" in a crisis. Someone to lean on.

About height, I’m taller than you and I have noticed throughout life that many diminutive men are not only facially more attractive than the big uns, but also have a great deal of charisma - possibly as a result of having had to ‘compensate’ from adolescence for their lack of physical stature. Or possibly cos we’re all different and height is just an accident of genetics! Sexiest bloke alive, for my money, is Al Pacino. Southern Europe is teeming with pint-sized stunners. When I see a man with a woman who’s notably taller than him I tend to think ‘oooh somebody’s got the chat - or something(!)’

As an aside I also think some small men find it quite good fun having a statuesque girlfriend - and there’s a lot to be said for being with someone who is comfortable with the fact you’re not taking up less space than they do 😂

This. I wouldn’t want to be with anyone who worried about my height or his though - that is totally unreasonable. My youngest is small (boy) and I want him to be loved for the generous lovely boy he is and not have his height in the con box.

Just enjoy the here and now with him….he sounds a ( rare) decent guy…as many others have said don’t merge finances or living together but please just enjoy “ today”… xx

Yep I think this is a very good question....

I agree with you completely on the height, but also know very many women don't.

He sounds lovely. But, and I realise how shallow this is, I'm very tall and the height difference would put me off.

God. That really is SO shallow, I know. But it would be a dealbreaker for me. I just wouldn't fancy him, however nice he was.

Yes. We were friends for a long time because, I guess, I never saw us as suited becuase of his height (also I wasn't looking) but once we "realised" we were more than friends I fancy him a lot!

That's probably one of the reasons things have moved quickly. We were spending so much time together as friends, lots of people assumed we were a couple before we knew it!

Oh god definitely go for it then!!!

Nooo! Don’t ditch him because of his height. Literally no one in the world is watching your relationship. If someone walking down the street thinks ooh he’s short and she’s tall how unusual…what does that even matter? I get it but really it’s totally a non issue. Yes it’s nice to be with a tall man and society dictates the man is taller but they also dictate men and women live together - you’ve said you don’t want to. Society also says all sorts of crap. Should every man who is different in any way to the traditional wedding cake topper man not have a relationship?

Also, very short men tend to be more attentive and switched on to stuff (as you say he is) because they have to be aware and observant. Being short usually means they’ve dealt with having to handle themselves in a world where they aren’t as physically strong as other men and are a target for aggression/abuse. Some short men seem to deal with this by getting “short man syndrome” where they’re very aggressive and always on the attack. A method of self preservation. Sometimes though they deal with it by being smart and using their wits and charm to handle social situations. They tend to be more thoughtful and understanding of how women feel in a room full of men because they actually get it.

Also, it’s strange isn’t it how if a man was divorced with three kids and no money, ‘society’ would be more ok with him that a man who never married or had kids. Like having a failed marriage is ok because at least you did the traditional thing but if you didn’t even try then wtf is wrong with you? Women get this too.

You should, for your own understanding and security, find out why he never did - perhaps he was with a woman for a long time, then broke up when he was 40 and then didn’t meet someone again for a while and therefore didn’t have kids. Or maybe he was with someone who couldn’t have kids. Or maybe she was abusive so he never asked her to marry him. Or his parents have a great marriage and he couldn’t find a relationship that seemed as positive so he didn’t want to commit. Or maybe he suffered abuse as a child and has commitment issues or trust issues. Or maybe he just wasn’t fussed about having kids and is happy with his own company. Or he’s a workaholic. Or maybe he’s gay.

living with parents that you enjoy the company of and they have space and they just get along really shouldn’t be weird. It’s a positive thing. And plenty of countries people live with multiple generations. It’s actually really horrid that people think it’s healthier to live alone and away from their family - we are social animals and have families that we maintain contact with for a reason.

if he’s a mummy’s boy who is sleeping in their basement and doesn’t contribute and plays Xbox all day and treats them badly that’s a different matter.

also, if you don’t want to end up as his carer funding his retirement, tell him (if you get to that bridge) - you’ll see what kind of a man he is.

sorry went off on one!

You are overthinking it with what you should or shouldn’t do. The only question is. Does he make you happy?

If you are happy then great enjoy your relationship.
For me it would not be enough. I need to be able to respect a man to have a great relationship with him. I don't have any respect for the drifters in life.
I could respect them as friends but not in a relationship as a large part would be missing. I would feel, oh here we go again, someone to have to support in retirement. I don't want to have to support any more people when that's all I've done my whole life.

Agree that the attitude towards living with parents is horrible.

I had to move back for a long time due to health & financial reasons - if I were judged by men in the same way people here judge them, I'd never have dared to date!

He sounds wonderful, op, and if the physical side of your relationship is also great then you should let go of the height thing.

Interesting because I did once wonder if he was gay...He's spent a lot of his life single with some male friendships that are really important to him.

He hasn't had many relationships, which I think is partly because he's quite happy doing his own thing and hasn't tried that hard, and probably also because women haven't shown much interest because of his height. Or he could be gay.

The idea of a man as a "good catch" is dubious at the best of times and totally meaningless when you're middle aged, financially self sufficient and independent. You can just have a man who you want, rather than one who ticks the boxes of what you would need him to have in order to afford to have kids, marry (for a share of assets?), be able to buy a house with because you cant afford to do it alone etc. You don't need a good catch.
And if you can afford to support him in retirement, and you love him and he is good for you, why would you not? Why are relationships so transactional?
And as for his height, come off it. Maybe he says "she's a good catch but she's a size 14 [or whatever]"
If something so obvious at first sight as height is a problem, it's a problem from the start and you wouldn't have got involved at all?

He sounds fine, neither of you are putting pressure on the other so I would just go with the flow. Who knows what lies around the corner.

A friend is in a similar position, she met a guy who on paper hasn’t got a lot going for him, but they are like peas in a pod, have lots of interests in common, enjoy each other’s company but are also still independent. I have never seen my friend so happy, and I have known her for 40 years, 20 of which were in another , very difficult relationship, but that’s another story.

You don't ever have to have any financial or property ties with this man, if you don't want too. If you live separately and your finances are separate, then you aren't going to be helping with these things into retirement. If you did decide you wanted to take the relationship further, perhaps live together, then your assets are very unequal, and yes, you'd probably end up having to help him in old age. He would have far more to gain by living with you, than the other way around. There's no reason to stop seeing the man, he sounds lovely, as the relationship stands right now. In the future, you would need a very honest conversation with him, as it's not your job to supplement his income or provide a house over his head.

He sounds lovely.

I suspect that, never having married and had children, he hasn’t seen the need to buy his own home or amass lots of savings.

I'm on the fence here.

So he lived independently until the age of about 50 - is that right? I can understand him moving back in with his parents during lockdown and I can see that he might realise they're better off with him there - it must be hard to leave a couple of elderly people alone after living with them for a couple of years.

It's the period before then that concerns me. I know how hard it is for people now to buy property, but it wasn't when he was young. What kind of job did he do then and what does he do now? The idea of someone waiting patiently for an inheritance to the extent they don't do much in terms of work isn't attractive to me. It would be more attractive if he was helping them financially, rather than the other way around.

What happens if he comes to your house for meals? Are you like his mum, providing everything?

Oh and big deal that he pays for the internet at his parents' place - he's the one using it the most! That's not him doing them a favour. And big deal that he buys his own food - he's a middle-aged man, ffs!

Its your opinion that counts here, OP - not ours!!! Is something niggling at some level, hence your post?

In old age he could end up being more wealthy than you OP

In some ways the fact that he is not driven to acquire excess wealth (but clearly does enough to support himself) means he has more time and energy to be a "nice human being"

Don't knock it!