Taxes to rise to fund PIP

[Viviennemary]

I just read this, Don't agree with this at all. PIP needs to be reformed. But not by introducing this two tier system. Sick of Labour already. Might have know they would revert to type. With all the infighting and disagreement so nothing ever gets done except back peddling, increased taxes and prices rises.

Feel free to, you can make an additional payment to HMRC any time you like

We can’t - demographics mean our ‘model’ no longer works. Pensions don’t work. The NHS doesn’t work. PIP doesn’t work.

All need radically funding reform - and, truthfully, we need to change our expectations on what they can deliver.

And as you can see from this thread, there is definitely ‘empathy fatigue’, with people starting to lose interest in funding these services for large numbers of people when they don’t feel they’re properly administered / going to the right people etc.

I think these is for example huge scepticism that so many people truly need PIP. That’s not saying ‘oh I don’t want disabled people to get any help’ - it’s people saying ‘are we actually giving money to the right people, and do all of them need it’.

Higher taxes are theoretically a good idea. Look at the countries with high taxes where they equate to higher standards of living.

In this country, higher taxes are completely pointless because we have such awful governments, and over the last god knows how many decades they've wasted so much money.

And I'm talking about every government. I don't care who they say they are politically, the whole lot of them just waste money one way or another. So I wouldn't want to pay higher taxes on that basis.

Show me some evidence that higher taxes are actually doing some good instead of just randomly plugging holes and I'll be happy to pay them.

Why don’t they sort out companies who don’t pay people properly and need to be topped up by UC first. Or help create some jobs, the dial back on remote working is a disaster for disabled people.
They can talk about offering support for disabled people to work, I want to see it first. Many companies think that slapping a flag on something is ‘access’. Look at train companies painting their trains with pride flags and then not offering ramps for wheelchair users.

If you want disabled people to work, including those with mental problems. You need to change the system first.

Well it shouldn't be incredibly difficult to get PIP if you suffer from a genuine disability. Not because you find the thought of work too stressful. No wonder the numbers claiming are rising at an alarming rate. The money is going to the wrong people. If they stopped getting it there would be more for other seriously disabled people.

@HowardTJMoon because I'm guessing you don't pay high rent and I'm also guessing you are not young since you can't see why someone would look for a better quality of life elsewhere.

My household does pay higher tax but we have a mortgage that is much cheaper than local rents. I'm not going to lambast a younger person who earns similar but has no hope of getting on the ladder and dismiss them moving elsewhere because they want poor people to starve. 🙄

Yes, I’m not exaggerating when I saw 80% of people I know are doing this (in London so having a parent with a six figure salary not unusual).

People wont sacrifice their free time if they don’t feel the payback is worth it - and being paid half as much for that extra day a week (or if with childcare, being paid nothing) - people just won’t do it.

You are who benefits are for - not working age people who have decided life is too hard

Yet news reports are saying that the welfare state is so unsustainable without massive cuts that this is what we will face because the welfare state as we know it will collapse? And that's even without low taxes.

We pay taxes so if we need benefits in the future they are there. What if you wake up tomorrow disabled or get in a life changing accident. Don't ever think your immune from disability

We can’t - demographics mean our ‘model’ no longer works. Pensions don’t work. The NHS doesn’t work. PIP doesn’t work.

Exactly, it's not sustainable

All need radically funding reform - and, truthfully, we need to change our expectations on what they can deliver.

But the government and the public don't want the conversation so we will just get more decline.

So they're deliberately diverting wages into pension contributions so they can maximise how much they can suckle from the public teat? Wow. You know a lot of shitty people.

Hang on - doesn't that make them benefits cheats?

Labour have really made a rod for their own back with the manifesto promise of not raise national insurance, income tax and vat

they really did not need to made this promise it was short sighted

they need to be raised for various reasons not just to fund PIP

Our benefits system absolutely needs looking at and why so many people are on PIP but this means looking into before changes are made

So they're deliberately diverting wages into pension contributions so they can maximise how much they can suckle from the public teat? Wow. You know a lot of shitty people.

Yes doctors, teachers, civil servants. All such shitty people!

I think the reality is we can’t afford to pay for everything. DWP cost has risen I think it was £280 billion last year forecast to rise hugely. I know everyone is looking at PIP but over half the costs are pensions, pension credits and attendance allowance. An aging population means that’s going to go up. I reckon by the time I’m pension age it’ll be means tested for new pensioners.

t.
But employers must do much, much more to enable those with disabilities and health needs to work.

Why ? they are there to run a business make profits, pay shareholders, employ and train their staff. They aren’t charities.

PIP can be an absolute lifesaver to those unable to work.

Hang on - doesn't that make them benefits cheats?

Yes, it's definitely the same thing 🙄

Well Viv, the PIP reforms are more likely to adversely impact people with physical disabilities than any other form of disability.

No one gets PIP because they find the thought of work too stressful. For a start, PIP awards are nothing to do with employment status.

But you carry on bashing away, facts don't matter to you.

This is fake news.

The government has NOT said how they will fund the changes to their bill. They have said this will be outlined in the Autumn statement.

Maybe they'll be brave and finally admit the triple lock is unaffordable and pensions should increase by a set amount each year. But sadly I can't see that happening any time soon.

So you believe without question that anxiety and depression is fuelling the increase in PIP ? Most day to day anxiety and depression is treated by primary care - a GP. PIP isn’t awarded for anxiety and depression treated by primary care. If you have a look at the actual descriptors used for the assessment, MH conditions are very difficult to claim for as the conditions have to be largely overwhelming and have a serious impact on everyday life to qualify. For a PIP claim on MH grounds alone, claimants generally have to be treated by second line consultant led mental health teams. Which suggests that once again the facts are being misrepresented to justify the cuts.

Apologies for the slight derail, but: I always laugh when people threaten to move abroad, whether it's "If Labour get in" or "If the Tories get in". Ditto in the US, "If Trump/Harris wins I'm moving to Canada".

Very few of these people ever move. And a lot of them come home after a short time with their tails between their legs.

Moving to another country is hard. You lose all your daily social life. Absolutely everything works differently — something as simply as "going to the doctor and getting a prescription and going to the pharmacy" is different in France and different again in the Netherlands. If you move to a non-English speaking country you have to deal with the language barrier, and wherever you go, it turns out that most adults are not in the market for new friends (and those who are, are not always the kinds of people who you would want to be friends with). And abroad also has income tax and traffic jams and bad bosses and government bureaucracy.

People make fun of working-class Brits who have saved a bit of money and up sticks at 58 and move to Spain, but I think they are immensely brave. And yes, many of them don't learn much Spanish, but then learning the two forms of the imperfect subjunctive probably isn't on any early retiree's to-do list.

Maybe if you are a billionaire and don't have any "normal" friends then it's less hard. Going to soirées at the George V in Paris isn't all that much different to going to soirées at the Dorchester. But for normal people with friends and family it's a huge decision.

The government actively encourages this by having 60%+ tax rates at this level, and excluding them from benefits worth several thousand pounds (which they’ll need to earn more than double to get as a net amount, due to the high tax rates).

If you would lose £20k by earning an extra £10k would just live with it, or put it in your pension? Obviously the latter.

No, it doesn’t make them benefits cheats. And - you can’t just tax and tax one group to fund generous services, but then exclude them from them, and expect them to cheerfully go along with that, even when it leaves them worse off.

It is fake news. Very disappointing that MNHQ doesn't at least amend the title of the thread.