Taxes to rise to fund PIP

[Viviennemary]

I just read this, Don't agree with this at all. PIP needs to be reformed. But not by introducing this two tier system. Sick of Labour already. Might have know they would revert to type. With all the infighting and disagreement so nothing ever gets done except back peddling, increased taxes and prices rises.

It’s not really cheating though, perfectly allowable within the rules. It’s a bit like tax avoidance, slightly morally dubious but not an issue really.

They need to weed out all the lazy non disabled adults who have decided not to work AND claim benefits. That money should go to the people with actual physical disabilities as described above. Not to healthy adults that find work a bit stressful. That's what I thought welfare reform would be. Not taking winter fuel payments off penisoners with no savings and stopping physically diable people from getting the help they need, and deserve.

I wish they would rise taxes and spend them on the right things: the welfare state and support for young families - bring back Sure Start etc. That's what governments are for. Scandinavian countries have high taxes and good services. Their populations do not flee for lower taxes because they have a sense of loyalty and community responsibility. It is part of their ethos. Sadly, since Thatcher, it is not part of ours - "there is no such thing as community" she told us so it is every man for himself. What a mess.

Indeed.
And all the people commenting that they pay tax: unless you are a 40%+ taxpayer, you are costing the state more than what you pay in, so what’s your point?

I worked administering PIP and making decisions for several years. Nobody ever believes me but it always felt to us like the higher ups and the government wanted us to pay and find ways to squeeze people into awards.

During the coalition/Tory years the focus was on reducing the UC bill. They were more than happy to have people on PIP. It has spiralled massively.

The problem is that we are beyond the point when tax rises raise more money; they are now such a distincentive that they are reducing the tax take. If only this government had come into office with a coherent plan - it’s crazy to think that, almost 12 months in, they are still making it up on the fly!

I'll need to read the ins and outs of it but this sounds like a shitty thing to do as people will resent it and by definition resent the less abled.

Meanwhile the Tories will be loving it. What a shit show 🙄

This doesn’t make sense. Policy impacts behaviour.

They never seem to think about the negative impact tax has, not just in individuals, but on the economy. All the missed opportunities for business owners or prospective business owners to take risks on investing in a venture that might turn an profit and employ more people. All those jobs they aren’t available because there’s no money left after paying the tax bill. All the foreign investment that goes elsewhere. It’s mind boggling.

Pride and trans inclusion are such a lazy but effective way to be progressive and inclusive.

In truth there is a hell of a long way to go to be inclusive to disabled people, but few businesses really care because it’ll take real effort, not like the “just add a rainbow to our logo” mentality that goes on now.

We need real change, and in the lack of that more and more people are still going to need PIP as their needs are being increasingly unmet.

We pay taxes so if we need benefits in the future they are there. What if you wake up tomorrow disabled or get in a life changing accident. Don't ever think your immune from disability

That's that point!

The reforms are happening to new claimants but not current ones.

People are paying for things that they won't get...

I work with highly skilled, highly globally mobile people. Trust me, they are leaving
Not everyone is fazed by learning a new language when they already speak 3 from birth.

You need to a) get a firmer grasp of what PIP actually is (hint: nothing to do with being unemployed); and b) read the Impact Assessment on the PIP changes.

Apologies for the slight derail, but: I always laugh when people threaten to move abroad, whether it's "If Labour get in" or "If the Tories get in". Ditto in the US, "If Trump/Harris wins I'm moving to Canada".

Perhaps you live somewhere that's not very diverse? My parents are immigrants as were the parents of all my school friends growing up in London. Moving country isn't a such a big deal for many of us, my younger siblings have lived abroad in other countries, one is now looking at a permanent move. I will certainly be encouraging my dc if it's something they want.

No it’s not that hard, especially if you are younger and have a career that’s in demand elsewhere

Yeah i dont agree with that. But iv paid tax for 20 years and only started claiming pip about 3 years ago. I actually still pay tax as im working. Pip is an incredibly hard benefit to get. And the fraud rate is basically zero. The problem is there are people who have never been through the pip process so dont understand the reality. They think you can walk into a gp say your stressed and get pip. A lot of people seem to have a strong opinion without even reading the descriptors.

It really is. And people asking for more of the same.

I’m not a parent who does this in order to access free childcare (I don’t earn enough), but the parents who do are making use of a specific rule that is in place because the government wants to incentivise this. The gov wants people to pay into their pensions, and so the rules encourage this. They aren’t cheating anything. Just like pension contributions being tax free so that people are more likely to actually make them - are you cheating the tax system when you contribute to your pension, after all, you’re reducing your taxable income.

I don’t think that’s true, if you look at the total tax take for the average worker. VAT is higher, and on more things (albeit there was a short term rise in VAT in ‘75 when the then Labour government ran out of money…)

We now have VAT on utilities, we pay insurance premium tax, fuel and alcohol duty is much higher and NI is also a lot higher. And that’s before council tax, which for an average earner in an average area (£35k salary, £2k of post tax income council tax bill) is equivalent to another 9% of gross income income.

Those on benefits will be exempt but pensioners will not.

They pay taxes the same as we do. Anyone with even the smallest private or occupational pension...if it pushes them over the single person's allowance, they pay income tax.

Where have you read that tax rises will pay for PIP ? Because to my knowledge the full details of how it will be funded won’t be known until the Autumn statement. Government has long had two tier systems. At the time PIP was introduced DLA was still in payment for those past the cut off date for migration onto PIP and not subject to the same harsher assessment as PIP. Once all those claims are closed, for whatever reason, it will be the same for all claimants. It’s just a temporary transition period.

The original plans needed to be stopped because they were grossly unfair, and there’s no guarantee that they will pass at next weeks’ vote because some MP’s are still unhappy at the four point rule being introduced for any claimant.

Ask yourself a question. If it’s the governments’ intention to get more disabled people into work, why are they cutting PIP when it has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to work ? IMO it’s for no other reason than to make it harder for disabled people to make ends meet if they no longer qualify for PIP, so it forces them back to work even if they are not fit. And it will also impact those who use PIP to support them to be able to work in the first place. It’s a huge own goal.

Instead of being sick of Labour for the reasons you’ve stated, try being sick of them for assuming that once you cut someone’s support, the need for that support disappears. Because it doesn’t. When a PIP claim is cut, any carers allowance paid to friends or family actually providing care for that person is also cut. And for that reason the government won’t save a penny with these reforms - because the support disabled people and their carers could access through PIP and carers allowance will simply switch to social care, which costs significantly more and is already stretched to unacceptable limits and the tax payer will foot an even bigger bill.

It’s nonsense to water down the proposals to only include future claimants.
Are those future claimants not in need as much as the existing.

We simply can’t be treating people differently like this.
The policy should be for everyone, equally, across the board

If RR had not decided to raise taxes on Non Dom's over 10k high tax payers would not have left UK since RR changed the rules with many more exiting every month. We need these high tax payers to help pay the benefits bill but stupid R from accounts drove them out. NF idea is much better. High tax paying ND's to pay £250k each and money to be used to give low paid but working people a bonus each year. We need to attract those high tax payers back.

That is 2 tier Kier for you.

No one knows, it’s just media stories