I HATE my 4 year old, I dont want to look after him anymore, I have given up parenting him.

[13MAPARTHELL]

I cannot stand my 4 year old,
he has been referred twice and they have not continued due to nursery. He is an angel for others, he does not like me clearly and I dont like him. He is extremely difficult, ruins single handedly every day out, every trip to the park, every activity. It is near on impossible to manage, it’s extremely difficult to have a job, he is naughty on purpose, and im not joking he pushes every boundary, repeatedly. He is a huge wind up, he hates everyone, he hates his brother, he hates me.

i let him do what he wants now, I’ve completely signed off mentally, and physically because I am struggling to find love for him right now, i really am.

i am finding myself saying some not nice things, because nothing makes an impact.

i just feel like I dont want to be around him at all.

If you were coming from a place of recognising the behavioyr being desrcibed and knowing it will likely just make the infs worse

sure

knock yourself out.

It was a suggestion. I didn't say I was right 100%. I was polite to you. You're the one with the attitude.

Praise doesn’t work for my difficult kid. At best he ignores it / seems completely indifferent. At worst it draws attention to the fact he is doing something, then that something becomes a big deal, and he flips out because he can’t handle the pressure or emotion that thing is now causing. Like him colouring in nicely happens once in a blue moon so I’d say “oh you’re making a beautiful picture there, I like the colours you’ve chosen” or something, then 10 seconds later he will be screaming on the floor as he has coloured out of a line or over another colour and it is no longer perfect. Same happens with food.

That makes sense.

Evening, all. We're here with a gentle reminder that people (such as the OP) post here often at a very low ebb, looking for support from other Mumsnetters, and to let off steam when they are struggling. Please do bear that in mind when you are replying.

None, hes self employed and we cant afford to lose his wage

because it has been recognised by professionals that there is power influence involved in his behaviour

You mean, a professional told you this? Or your partner read it somewhere and he's telling you?

If your family members don't see you much or pitch in with the kids, I wouldn't pay much attention to what they say.

This is such good advice thank you so much honestly, I have screenshot this and set it as my wallpaper as a constant reminder

No, a ND specialist told me this?

Sorry but you must reframe your thinking. What's the alternative? Put him in care? Why can't you work? Has he been thrown out of after school club? Ifield for both of you but you are an adult and must find a way to overcome these damaging feelings.

Hey OP. Just to say I recognise so much of this behaviour from my DS. I posted a thread on here about him maybe 8 or 9 months ago in a moment of despair and got absolutely excellent advice in Parenting.

Largely off the back of the advice here we went for a private assessment and he was diagnosed with PDA autism straight away. I would hazard a guess your son would be too. Please do read ‘the explosive child’. At Peace Parents is also a great resource as well (Instagram). There is also the book PDA in the Family which is good.

School will be a significant challenge for him I expect. I’m not in Kent but you should look for local SEN parent support groups on Facebook or similar. I’d ask for recommendations there for private autism assessors who recognise PDA (if finances will stretch to it). Sadly, help at school shouldn’t be based on diagnosis (it should be based on need). But that is often not true. If there is a diagnosis made I would approach the school ASAP about your concerns.

Much love to you. I absolutely hear how much you care and PDA children are just extremely difficult to parent, this isn’t something you have done x

Ah, okay. It wasn't clear.

What did they say to you exactly? That you're not firm enough with him? They didn't call you a pushover, surely? Or did they?

because it has been recognised by professionals that there is power influence involved in his behaviour

This may be true but it doesn't make you weak, you could be as tough as nails and extremely strict, it would make no difference.
This is not your fault, it's not your child's fault, they are just wired differently and you need to find a way to tune into the way they think (easier said than done I know) all this takes time.
My dd overpowered me , sometimes physically and definitely emotionally, she didn't do it on purpose (took me ages to realise this) she was just overwhelmed and scared.
The gaming sounds like a good idea, you've certainly got nothing to lose.
I'm in Kent most weekends and not adverse to having a soggy shoulder xxx

Tell me you know nothing about living with ND children without telling me you know nothing.

My DS3 (now 12) was like this. He was my easiest baby, but toddler onwards was an absolute nightmare. It peaked at home when he was about 3. Nursery saw nothing. He was accepted onto to ASD assessment pathway but mostly because my eldest had an ASD diagnosis already. He had a very slight speech delay. Otherwise his "public" presentation at the time was very subtle. His nursery gave him a leaving certificate with "most charming of nursery class 2017". Shame they didn't see the epic meltdown on the way home!

Reception year was uneventful, and his teacher questioned his diagnosis more than once.

He stopped masking in Yr1. I won't terrify you with what happened with education, but suffice to say there was no more questioning of his diagnosis, and he was also diagnosed with ADHD age 7.

For DS3, he really could not handle short transitions, so a quick trip to the park was a nightmare. The afternoon school run for older DC were extremely difficult and he really targeted DS4 at that time.

He's always been incredibly strategic, despite his impulsiveness. He had a phase of spitting on the carpet aged about 4. During one episode DH said "if you do that again, we won't go to Grandparents house' . DS3 responded by pissing on the carpet!

He is difficult to parent, charts etc don't work with him. But a lot of is anxiety-based and as he's matured, he has got better at expressing verbally when he's getting stressed.

He's actually really calm playing games with DS4, who is a frequent rage-quitter. He also tries to problem solve when he's not the cause. E.g. DS4 accidentally destroyed something of DS2s in Minecraft, so DS3 quietly sat rebuilding it. DS3 was the easiest at potty training because he basically decided he wanted to wear pants.

My other 3 are so gentle and having a child with challenging behaviour is really hard to deal with. Both DH and I have been punched and bitten numerous times. He gave DH a black eye once.

I think I've failed to give any advice at all(!) But basically you may find the usual strategies aren't successful and you muddle through and find what does work better with trial and error

I could have written this 12 years ago. My son is 16 today and it has been really hard. And it is hard. But I have found strategies to survive and protect his younger brother:
Let him play video games way more than I would with a NT child, avoid conflicts about small stuff, antidepressants for his OCD, antidepressants for me to stay strong, calming medication in the evening prescribed by psychiatrist because that's when he's the worst...

I really really do understand you OP, it's so bloody hard when it feels like nothing ever helps and you just keep trying to avoid disasters. You are not a bad mum- you're an exhausted mum with no outside help (shame on your family) and you are 100% entitled to your feelings. ❤️

Same!! Why is this?

Because games are predictable and they don't judge you and you can have unlimited chances to try again. They are also fun/appealing. They are built in with tons of reinforcement and often modern games have an even more sophisticated version of this where if you're struggling it will become easier or your character will receive more items to help. If it's too boring or hard you can go into a menu and change the options, or use a cheat code. Skills and the associated challenges level up slowly and at a pace you control, rather than according to some arbitrary timeline like the school year. It's essentially the perfect most accommodating environment which adapts to the player no matter what.

Some kids really, really struggle to understand the social behaviour of others, even with those closest to them, and struggle to manage everyday life in the outside world, games make sense to them and make them feel safe. Especially when they have delays in their development. Other children their age or younger can do things around them which they can't do, and adults are expecting a higher level of ability in terms of behaviour which they can't currently meet. Most behaviour issues (especially those relating to children not "learning" the expected behaviour) are developmental, IMO. Children hit other children because they don't have the skills to manage conflict or communicate another way. They are wriggly or loud when they struggle to sit still for any length of time. They act silly when they struggle to concentrate or follow what is going on. They come across as "defiant" when they can't process a multi-step instruction. They may explode in rage at the end of a day which feels filled with constant, impossible demands.

There is one problem with games and it's that when children struggle so much with "real life" and retreat back into games, that is then not giving them any supported, scaffolded practice at the things that they are struggling with. So the gap can widen as they already struggle with something and then avoid it in favour of games meaning they are getting even less practice in. Sources of anxiety can also become even scarier.

BUT - that concern only makes sense if the child IS currently engaging in the things that they struggle with in a way that they can make progress. In an extreme scenario where nothing is working at all, letting them have more time on games so that they are calmer and more regulated and the interactions they do have with their sibling and parent(s) become more positive, that is a net gain. When there is an extreme level of unsafe behaviour, the only priority should be to reduce or ideally eliminate the unsafe behaviours. Once you are at that point you can start to work on other goals, but it's incredibly difficult to make any progress at all when you are constantly firefighting and all methods to fight the fire feel like pouring petrol on it or trying to quell it with a free water pistol from a magazine.

Op I was also going to suggest PDA but people get a bit crabby about mentioning diagnoses ( for reasons I partly understand).

https://www.caudwellchildren.com/changing-lives/how-we-can-help/autism-services/autism-assessment-parent-and-carer-guide/

May be worth looking into

@13MAPARTHELLi work with a lot of children who are very similar to your son. A lot of parents seem to get a lot out of reading this book https://amzn.eu/d/ciiKybL
I’ll PM you if that’s ok with some further pointers, but if I forget (quite likely!) please nudge me!

I would also recommend joining ‘SEN parent support group’ on facebook. This is an amazing community of parents who are or have been through issues and will help and support you to get your son and you the help you need

Dear God, grow the fuck up or get off this site.

I have been there. Absolutely desperate. Being screamed at that they hate you, they wish you were dead, they want to kill themselves, hurting themselves, hours of screaming because of something so small that they have forgotten why they are doing it.

Begging for help from services and being told "you're a good mum, you advocate for them, you safeguard them and as you're not a risk to your children we're going to close the case" well thanks for that.

I struggled for years and was let down so badly. My mental health plummeted and I was suicidal because I could not take it anymore. Dealing with this on a daily basis, begging for help and being told no, having thoughts that you hate your child and being so desperate to get away from them. I even told all services I was at my wits end and wanted to die. 8 days later I begged children's services to take my children into care, I was told "oh we're not at that point yet" i replied "you might not be but I am". I told the social worker I was planning to kill myself, do you know what help I got from her? She sent me a text message with details for 111, I kid you not. That night I attempted suicide and very nearly died.

There really is no help. The system isn't set up to help.

This has turned into a rant of my own. But I just wanted you to know that you are not alone, you are not an awful parent. You are a mum and a good one from the sounds of it, that is having an awful time. It is not your fault that the system is letting you and your family down.

He sounds like my nephew who was diagnosed with ADHD. 4 was his absolute peak awful age! I babysat him only ONE time for a couple of hours and he attacked my small dog and my child. I knew there was something off when he was a baby and he hated being held, by anyone. He would strain to get away from you. Mine would snuggle in. All he liked to do was trash things. My poor SIL went through a lot. He is a wonderful little boy now at 10. Of course he still has some challenges, particularly at school but it's like night and day to what he was like at 4.
He is lovely to chat to.

Thank you for this, it makes perfect sense. My youngest has a hard time at school, he can’t sit still, he finds it hard to write and doesn’t have good fine motor skills, he hates how clothes feel and can’t manage buttons even though he is now 6, etc etc…I expect after a draining day being asked to do all these difficult things, a Mario level he’s done over and over again before is very comforting.

Also thank you to OP for being truthful and vulnerable creating this post in the first place, and for everyone else sharing their stories. Reading it all and knowing others are going through the same has been such a comfort