I actually think this may be a deal breaker for me.

[DancingDucks]

My closest friend of 30 years split up with her DH about a year ago. Her DH is my husband's best friend, also if around 30 years. He left my friend and their children for another woman and she was left heartbroken. I've supported my friend through this, DH is also fond of her, well I thought he was, and although he says he doesn't agree with what he did, still sees her DH.

I don't really have an issue with that, they've been through a lot together and are very close. Here is my issue. DH wants to go out for dinner with him and his new girlfriend as a four. I have said absolutely not. I feel like he just wants to replace my friend with this new woman and it would break my friends heart if I suddenly buddied up with her, plus, I really don't want to.

I accept he wants to see his friend, but I absolutely will not sit and pretend that it's lovely and cosy with him and the woman he was shagging in my friends bed, when their children were asleep. I have no interest in seeing either of them.

DH says that I need to 'get over it' and he 'expects' me to do this. I absolutely will not. We've been together 25 years and married for 22, mostly all good but I can't believe he won't respect how I feel about this, or that he would put me in this position. He's so angry that I won't and I'm so angry that he expects me to. It feels like I'm talking to someone I don't know.

I agree with you! And would be loyal to my friend always! I hate cheaters (YUCK) but it has me thinking … with the men being best friends too, do you think the ex has been telling your DH things? Like maybe twisting events and maybe making it out your friend was the bad guy? It’s the only thing that’s made me think why he’s being an ass and adamant that it’s ok for you to do this to your own best friend!
PS , I can be quite petty cause I’m loyal to the core but I would totally meet up with them but make it a horrible meal and make them both uncomfortable 😂 cause yeah I’m petty like that ✌🏼

Agree with the last few posts. There was nothing strange about the wording of OPs post. And just to reiterate OP doesn’t have to associate or hang out with her husband’s friends new girlfriend. Not now, not ever.

Even in a normal situation it’s not necessary let alone this mess. Honestly this is what comes of couples thinking they must do everything together. While I am friendly with some of my friends partners, I also have some friends who are married and I’ve either met their spouse briefly - or sometimes not at all. I’ve not befriended all my previous partners friends either. And certainly not their friends girlfriends.

It’s fine to hang out in couples if you like but you are allowed to socialise separately and have your own friends.

I doubt it.

Even if his mate did twist it - and I don’t really see how he could in this situation - I believe it would make more sense for her husband to speak up and say what he had heard, rather than passive aggressively try to make her attend this dinner and then shame her for not coming.

And let’s pretend for a moment and say the husbands friend is in the right, and it’s really Ops friend at fault and husband knows this and for some reason is keeping it to himself - Op would still have the right to choose who she socialises with.

Whatever way you spin it his behaviour is deeply unpleasant and strange.

We did have a falling out - over this.

Why do I need to accept the other woman? I don't think I do. I said at the start that I have no objection to DH seeing his friend whenever he likes, but as far as I'm concerned I really don't need to. I don't care if they get married, it won't make any difference.

At this stage, it's not just about this issue, it's about my DH seemingly being a completely different man than the one I thought he was and treating me with distain and disrespect.

You're right OP.. it's become so much more than the friend and the new GF. You have the right to see whomever you want. And your husband's attitude has been disgraceful. You are indeed being treated so disrespectfully. And the fact that his behaviour has changed so dramatically shows there's so much more going on in his head. It must be so difficult for you to feel so detached from him with no real understanding of the reason. Its a very difficult one to fathom. You absolutely deserve civility, respect and consideration from him. There's a serious line been crossed here, and only you can know if it's been a step too far. I feel for you OP. Deal with this in the manner that is best FOR YOU.

The OP is right. Her H is perfectly entitled to retain his long friendship and meet up with his mate’s new girlfriend if he so desires. OP recognises this. But she is also entitled to retain her long-standing friendship with her H mate’s ex - and this means she does not wish to be buddies with the ‘new duo’. Perfectly acceptable.

But crucially, her H does not recognise this and doesn’t seem to accept that he and his wife can hold different views about the matter without it being a threat. His comments about OP being disloyal to him make no sense whatsoever.

And for him to speak to her like that is just shocking - how does he think this going to make OP change her mind?

He must - sadly - really believe he is in the right or he’d never have talked to DD in that way. I do hope her robust response has made him have second thoughts about his frankly unpleasant behaviour.

This is clearly not about a dinner that OP didn’t want to attend, it’s about her H’s lack of respect for her and his resulting treatment of her - someone who he is supposed to love and cherish.

Well done OP for standing your ground.

I can’t believe he tried to get your DD on side but thank god she has strong principles like you!

I don’t think you ever “have” to accept this woman, especially as she’s the person that he cheated with. I know the main fault lies with the person who’s in a relationship but if you willingly have an affair with them, then I think you’re a shitty person too. So on that basis alone, I wouldn’t want to be cosying up to her.

It’s lovely that you are so close to your friend.

I’m sure your DH is envious of his mate’s shiny new girlfriend but I don’t think this is about an affair. It just sounds like plain old misogyny tbh. “Wife must do what man wants. Daughter must back up dad. Women do not get to have feelings that are inconvenient to man.” He expects you to fall into line simply because he wants you to and he doesn’t respect that you have different feelings about this.

And that's the issue isn’t it? He doesn’t understand that there’s no need for you to pick a side between him and your friend. He can go out with his cheating friend and his new squeeze without you. It’s not difficult to say “DancingDucks doesn’t want to come because she feels it would be disloyal to Friend.” Any decent person on the planet would understand that.

Have you told your friend what’s going on? I know you might feel worried about her feeling guilty but this isn’t about her per se, it’s about your DH’s unwillingness to respect your views.

I really hope your DH comes to his senses and apologises because in your shoes I wouldn’t be backing down and it would be a shame for you to split. It does seem however that it’s given you an insight into how little he respects you and I wonder whether with hindsight, this has been evident in other ways before.

The problem is H telling her to fall into line against her own values and loyalty. He actually does not think she has the right to her own beliefs.

@Dontlletmedownbruce

Who this man stays in a relationship with has nothing to do with the OP. She isn’t his friend, doesn’t want to be his friend and will never be his friend. He can marry who he likes… OP won’t have anything to do with it because she isn’t friends with him. She was friends with the wife, this man cheated and left so OP never has to see him again. She is friends with his ex wife.

OP’s husband can do what he likes. He is friends with this man and can continue the friendship, without involving OP. The issue is that he won’t give her the same courtesy. He is trying to control her; she won’t stop his friendship but he is trying to force her to be involved, which would lead to her hurting her own friend and possibly losing that friendship.

OP is allowing her husband to do what he likes with his mate… but her husband is trying to control her and force her to see these people and then lose her own friend, instead of just maintaining his friendship without dragging OP along.

He is a proper dickhead. OP has done nothing wrong.

Good for you OP - a star 🌟
All friends should be like you!

id be asking him if this is a hill he wants to die on… because no one has the right to dictate who your friends are. you are not telling him to ditch the cheating asshole. I have to say op I completely understand his behaviour may be a pivotal moment in your relationship which is quite sad. It didn’t need to be an issue.

Your dh friend is probably very vocal with your dh, and must sound reasonable… he wants his nice life to continue so he will have it all on repeat- it wasn’t working/marriages end/it’s been a year… the normal speel… maybe show him the script and ask him to play bingo with how many his friend used on his ex wife

Absolutely this. As above poster says there is no reason at all why OP has to be friends with her husband's BF new partner. Or even the husbands BF for that matter. They don't need to be part of her life in any way. Just because you are married you don't need to share the same friends. Plus this would be a deal breaker for me too, because it's now about her DH trying to force her to buddy up with the BF and his new partner. He needs to drop it, and not go there again unless it is to apologise to the OP for his disgusting controlling behaviour. I would be more concerned about his behaviour and what that is saying about his feelings towards the OP at the moment. I would absolutely not be happy with how he has acted here and that he can't understand why the OP doesn't want to meet the OW is unfathomable. And he doesn't need to understand it I guess but he shouldn't be trying to force her to do anything she doesn't want to do.

I think in the OPs position I would veto this as a future topic of conversation and would just refuse to discuss it further, but I would be quietly concerned and be looking out for further instances of him trying to control what I do and think.

@DancingDucks Well, you've done a cracking job with your DD. You've brought her up to have principles that she believes in

Well done

I do wonder whether it's jealousy with your husband though. He's behaving very badly

Apologies if someone has already linked this, I have only read your responses. There’s a marvellous short story about a similar situation https://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/sites/teacheng/files/weekend_text_0.pdf - you are quite right to reject being Martha !

Anybody who tried to 'order' me to do something would find themselves out of their ear very quickly indeed. How fucking DARE he?

My rule is that if someone is willing to deceive and hurt someone else, they're willing to do it to you, it's only the opportunity and motive that's lacking.

It's far less likely to come up between a platonic male relationship than in a sexual relationship, but it's stood me in good stead.

My husband's "best" man lied to and cheated on his fiance. He lied to and let down my husband just before the wedding.

Trash people are trash, you just don't see the trash side when they want you.

I don’t think this has anything to do with the OW at all. It’s about the OPs DH seemingly thinking he can force his DW into doing something she doesn’t want to. He's not respecting her wishes or boundaries. If my DH didn’t want to do something with me, I might be a bit fed up about it, but I’d never force him to do something he didn’t want to do (apart from the fact I couldn’t physically strong arm him into going). Her DH is using emotional abuse tactics (sulking, silent treatment) to try and ‘make’ her do something she has clearly said she doesn’t want to. So yes, it could potentially be a deal breaker.

He wants you to pretend all's well when it's absolutely not. He must see that your loyalty to your dear friend is important to you and you can't compromise here. Does he have no moral stand on what his friend did in your friends bed with this new woman, with his children in the house. Disgusting behaviour. Your DH needs to give that some real thought.

Good for you for being a great friend. I hope the ex gets dumped.

DH says that's I'm letting him down, but I feel it's the other way around.

Can he not see that there is a massive difference between not accompanying him to dinner at his friend's house on the one hand, and on the other hand telling your very old and close friend that you are going to support the man and woman who have torn her life apart and caused her untold misery? If he really equates the two, he's really quite thick.

All that said, I don't think your friend gets to tell you who you can and cannot spend time with

There's absolutely no suggestion that that is what OP's friend has done, @Dontlletmedownbruce. You're sounding a little like OP's husband in assuming she can't make up her mind all by herself.

My friend hasn't said anything at all about this because I haven't told her. I know her and she would feel awful, thinking that she was the one causing the issue and it's not, it's my DH as far as I'm concerned.

Up until about 3 years ago the 4 of us spent a regular amount of time together, out for dinner or at each others houses and I honestly think that my DH wants that to continue now, just with the other woman slotted into my friends place. And I'm supposed to be OK with that.

But as I said, it's much more than that now. I'm so angry that he tried to involve DD too and I'm sick of the little digs he makes on the rare occasions he's spoken to me over the last week or so. It can't go on like this, so we either have to find a solution or we don't I suppose. If I'm honest I'm wondering if he's trying to get me to flounce off so that he can say how unreasonable I am. I think he's watching his friend galavanting around with this younger woman wondering if he could have the same. Never thought I'd see the day, but here we are.

I feel for you and I think (hope!) I’d be doing the same thing in your shoes. Your observation that perhaps he just wants to “slot in” the other woman made me wonder how he’d feel the other way round about if it was slotting in a new bloke when your friend had broken HIS friend’s heart?

There must be something underlying your DH's behaviour. You've been happily married (or so you thought) for a fair while and he suddenly changes into this person you don't recognise? It's beyond weird.

DH and I know a couple who have been married longer than us, we've been friends with them for 20 years and do similar to what you did in the past OP, see them regularly either out or at each others' homes etc and get on well. I would class the woman as my best friend. My DH is very good friends with the husband. If her husband had an affair and tried to slot in the OW as though she belonged into the group of 4, my DH would have said absolutely not mate. Sorry but no, not happening. DH would likely see him for a beer etc but it would never be on his radar to INSIST that we socialise with them. Never in a million. Your DH's behaviour, as I say, is beyond weird.

How are you going to get over this stale-mate?

"Up until about 3 years ago the 4 of us spent a regular amount of time together, out for dinner or at each others houses and I honestly think that my DH wants that to continue now, just with the other woman slotted into my friends place. And I'm supposed to be OK with that."

That probably is his thinking! Which is worrying as it suggests he sees women as interchangeable adjuncts to men's life, an attitude I though ended in the Victorian era (Wife died in childbirth? Get a new one to take care of you existing children and sprog some more!)

He sees your friend as replaceable in his friend's life, and therefore his and yours. And it would make me consider that he sees you as replaceable in his life.

I really think you should point this out to him really bluntly. Point out that his current behaviour suggests he wants to emulate his friend, and trade in his wife for a newer model.

He really did expect his daughter to agree with him, didn't he? Did the disagreement give him any food for thought? Cause him to reflect a bit? At all? Although it was shit of him to try and 'recruit' her, he may have done you a favour. Your daughter is now aware of the situation. Behaviour like his should never be kept secret.

Sometimes a seemingly random thing happens and it makes us see another person in a whole new light. Then we start to look back and things they said or did, that we minimised or made excuses for, become glaringly apparent.

I think that even if you and your h 'get over' this, you won't entirely trust him again - he's shown you that he is capable of some very worrying behaviour and that he doesn't have your back, when doing so would be a bit uncomfortable for him!
I'd bet good money that you start noticing the other instances where his attitude has been off. I don't think this can come out of nowhere, even though it seems like it has.

Using your dd to get you to conform is lower than low - I wouldn't be able to forgive that.
I also think at the moment you are in shock and that's why you feel a bit distant and almost like you don't care about him right now. That will change and if the relationship ends it will hurt a lot, when that shock wears off. But don't be tempted to compromise yourself for the sake of ending that pain - objectively speaking, this is a hill worth dying on. What he's doing calls into question fundamental issues in the marriage - at source he thinks that he is charge, his opinions outrank your own autonomy and that it's okay to drag your children into a marital issue (irrespective of how that might affect them) and use them to manipulate you.