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So has WW3 just started?

592 replies

Newsenmum · 14/06/2025 22:30

I can’t believe I’m not seeing more threads on this. Starmer back israel against Iran. Other Muslim countries are supporting Iran.

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esem · 22/06/2025 12:49

you arent looking at/or listening to the right news outlets then

justasking111 · 22/06/2025 12:53

We and many European forces are working for Ukraine so flight radar doesn't tell the whole story.

Pomodorini · 22/06/2025 13:23

Keir Starmer has backed the US strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities and called on Iran to return to negotiations, saying the country’s nuclear programme was a “grave threat to international security”.

notimagain · 22/06/2025 13:29

justasking111 · 22/06/2025 12:53

We and many European forces are working for Ukraine so flight radar doesn't tell the whole story.

You can never rely on Flightradar to tell the whole story, for lots of reasons, often very benign.

Regardless of Ukraine/Europe many mil aircraft these days have the option of encrypted transponder modes and can disappear off the likes of Flightradar at will.

Grammarnut · 22/06/2025 13:31

Pomodorini · 22/06/2025 07:28

Israel has nuclear weapons and it hasn’t stopped Iran attacking Israel.

Israel is unlikely to use them against a neighbouring power - and even Iran knows that - because it will affect Israel itself. Nuclear weapons are a zero sum game. On the other hand, Iran doesn't give a flying fuck about harming their population or their neighbours in order to get at Israel, so the chances are they would use them.

DiscoDancingDoris · 22/06/2025 14:14

Does anyone think this will escalate and will the UK get involved?

Sorry if that's a stupid question, I am struggling to keep up with it all.

justasking111 · 22/06/2025 14:17

notimagain · 22/06/2025 13:29

You can never rely on Flightradar to tell the whole story, for lots of reasons, often very benign.

Regardless of Ukraine/Europe many mil aircraft these days have the option of encrypted transponder modes and can disappear off the likes of Flightradar at will.

Exactly we're near a Mach loop area. Poof they vanish. Now you see me, now you don't.

Pomodorini · 22/06/2025 14:18

DiscoDancingDoris · 22/06/2025 14:14

Does anyone think this will escalate and will the UK get involved?

Sorry if that's a stupid question, I am struggling to keep up with it all.

The UK is involved, Starmer has stated he supports the US bombing Iran.

MushMonster · 22/06/2025 14:19

My opinion is that sadly there is a chance now that US has intervened.
I think Iran will not retaliate against US. But if they do, we may see bases attacked and other countries around unwillingly involved. At which point, we may need to defend assets and this could mean getting pulled into a war.
We are putting the stability of the world we know in the hands of people like Khameini, Trump and Netanyahu!

MushMonster · 22/06/2025 14:20

@Pomodorini that does not mean we are at war.

justasking111 · 22/06/2025 14:22

MushMonster · 22/06/2025 14:20

@Pomodorini that does not mean we are at war.

The mullahs don't like us we will get blamed I suspect. Might be government warnings about unattended bags again. After Birmingham bombing there was a lot of that.

MushMonster · 22/06/2025 14:32

That is a sad possibility indeed. @justasking111

Pomodorini · 22/06/2025 14:40

MushMonster · 22/06/2025 14:20

@Pomodorini that does not mean we are at war.

It didn’t work out too well for Salman Rushdie.

MushMonster · 22/06/2025 14:49

@Pomodorini I do not think you can compare the two scenarios.

justasking111 · 22/06/2025 14:50

Pomodorini · 22/06/2025 14:40

It didn’t work out too well for Salman Rushdie.

No they're very patient re revenge. Just takes one person to do their bidding. 10, 20 years away.

esem · 22/06/2025 21:52

always the aggressors

DinkyW · 23/06/2025 15:52

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notimagain · 23/06/2025 16:27

@DinkyW

That's a worthy petition until the whinges start...

"And yet, unlike British nationals in Israel, they have received no indication of evacuation support.

This disparity is indefensible."

The disparity actually is defensible, or at least can be explained.

Right now with precautions/coordination it's relatively straightforward to get flights into/out of places like Tel Aviv and Haifa...hence it's possible for HMG to shift Brits out of Israel.

OTOH Iranian airspace is as best we can tell shut down, if/when it opens in the short term I doubt any insurer would cover a civil badged flight by a western airline hopping in/out (as much as anything because due sanctions you'd be utterly screwed if the aircraft went "tech' on the turnround and spare parts were needed)

Maybe HMG could offer up one of their own transport aircraft (obvious candidate would be a Voyager... oohh dear), but it's quite possible the Iranians would be unlikely to accept it.

So it's all very well people stamping feet and saying "put flights on now" but there's a real world aviation version of realpolitik at play here and there might be for some time.

..But I accept it must be dreadful to be stuck there.

DinkyW · 23/06/2025 16:33

notimagain · 23/06/2025 16:27

@DinkyW

That's a worthy petition until the whinges start...

"And yet, unlike British nationals in Israel, they have received no indication of evacuation support.

This disparity is indefensible."

The disparity actually is defensible, or at least can be explained.

Right now with precautions/coordination it's relatively straightforward to get flights into/out of places like Tel Aviv and Haifa...hence it's possible for HMG to shift Brits out of Israel.

OTOH Iranian airspace is as best we can tell shut down, if/when it opens in the short term I doubt any insurer would cover a civil badged flight by a western airline hopping in/out (as much as anything because due sanctions you'd be utterly screwed if the aircraft went "tech' on the turnround and spare parts were needed)

Maybe HMG could offer up one of their own transport aircraft (obvious candidate would be a Voyager... oohh dear), but it's quite possible the Iranians would be unlikely to accept it.

So it's all very well people stamping feet and saying "put flights on now" but there's a real world aviation version of realpolitik at play here and there might be for some time.

..But I accept it must be dreadful to be stuck there.

Edited

Thanks for your perspective @notimagain, and yes, you’re absolutely right to highlight the operational complexities of flying into Iran right now. It’s not as simple as booking a flight or sending in a Voyager, Iranian airspace is largely closed to commercial carriers, sanctions limit spares, and there’s very little margin for error.

But that’s exactly why the UK Government needs a plan, not silence.

Other countries are finding ways, Ireland, France, Germany, China, India, through land convoys, diplomatic channels, and onward flights from neighbouring countries like Turkey or Armenia. They're not waiting for Iran to become “flight-friendly” they’re acting with urgency and realism.

We’re not stamping our feet. We’re asking for the same duty of care that’s been extended to British nationals elsewhere:

  • Secure passage to a third country
  • Coordination with local authorities
  • Transparent communication with families here in the UK
  • A commitment to not abandon citizens just because it's diplomatically messy

You’re right, this is realpolitik. But it’s also real lives. And Britain has the diplomatic weight, intelligence networks, and global partnerships to do better than “let’s hope the airspace clears.”

No one’s demanding miracles, just equal protection and a strategy that matches what others are already doing.

Let’s not leave people behind, surely the UK Government don’t want another fall of Kabul situation, with footage of Brits left behind.

notimagain · 23/06/2025 16:49

@DinkyW

Thanks for that reply,

Just as a general point I do think at times HMG can be a bit behind the curve with this sort of thing, certainly verses other governments.

I suspect you're right that short term the only way out will probably be overland..(unless somehow sometime soon some of the Iranian local airlines can find a way to operate)..then back to to UK somehow.

If HMG can facilitate that, great, but I don't think (and this is an IMO) they are being negligent or discriminating by not organising repatriation flights right now...but they'll probably need continual kicking to ensure something viable PDQ.

QuiteUnbelievable · 23/06/2025 17:04

Why has Qatar said for USA and British national to shelter in place?

notimagain · 23/06/2025 17:10

QuiteUnbelievable · 23/06/2025 17:04

Why has Qatar said for USA and British national to shelter in place?

We can only read between the lines but if it's national specific best guess is there's a worry or intelligence that someone might be planning to specifically target citizens of those countries.

DrPrunesqualer · 23/06/2025 17:12

This reply has been deleted

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Thankyou for posting
We Have signed

Clearly British citizens in Israel are more important than those in Iran. It’s a bloody disgrace!

Our Government is picking and choosing who they deem to be more important…..Shame on them!

notimagain · 23/06/2025 17:18

DrPrunesqualer · 23/06/2025 17:12

Thankyou for posting
We Have signed

Clearly British citizens in Israel are more important than those in Iran. It’s a bloody disgrace!

Our Government is picking and choosing who they deem to be more important…..Shame on them!

Sadly you've just demonstrated exactly what I was concerned about with regard to the wording of the petition when I had the dialogue with @DinkyW upthread.

You do understand that with all the will and money in the world HMG can't just magic up flights out of Iran, whereas ATM they can assist, fairly easily with getting people out of Israel??

DinkyW · 23/06/2025 17:22

notimagain · 23/06/2025 17:18

Sadly you've just demonstrated exactly what I was concerned about with regard to the wording of the petition when I had the dialogue with @DinkyW upthread.

You do understand that with all the will and money in the world HMG can't just magic up flights out of Iran, whereas ATM they can assist, fairly easily with getting people out of Israel??

@DrPrunesqualer I agree it's a disgrace!

And, yes, you're absolutely right @notimagain: logistically, getting people out of Iran is harder than Israel. But that doesn’t mean those people should be abandoned, it means the UK government needs to work harder, smarter, and more transparently.

Other governments (France, Ireland, India, Germany) have found ways, using land corridors, third-country coordination, and clear consular comms. It's not about sending a plane tomorrow. It's about:

  • Acknowledging the risk
  • Supporting safe passage via Turkey, Armenia, or Azerbaijan
  • Telling families what's being done instead of staying silent

Don’t treat people as less worthy of help just because they’re harder to reach.

We’re asking for equal effort, not equal ease. That’s the core principle and that’s what should (hopefully!) unite us.