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So has WW3 just started?

592 replies

Newsenmum · 14/06/2025 22:30

I can’t believe I’m not seeing more threads on this. Starmer back israel against Iran. Other Muslim countries are supporting Iran.

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11
willowtree99 · 17/06/2025 12:27

@Vinvertebrate

You literally asked us to "thank Israel" for the targeted assassination of scientists.

There is no discrepancy between what the IAEA says about Iran's nuclear capability and what the Iranian Government says it has. Both recognise that Iran has 400kg of 60% enriched uranium. So either you believe the IAEA, or you believe Iran is lying, you cant have it both ways.

I'm not sure why you are surprised that the Jewish population that lives in the historic land of Persia are Persian, but despite being 0.1% of the population, they none the less have a reserved seat in the Majles-e Shura-ye Eslami.

I never said Iran didn't want to destroy Israel, I think its quite understandable that they would want to see the dismantling of a state that is actively involved in terrorism in their country, assassinating its scientists (war crime), members of its government (war crime) and bombing nuclear facilities (war crime) and has called for the assassination of its leader. I said they did not want the destruction of Jews, an entirely different thing, but one which zionists are very keen to conflate.

@devourfeculence

Jews, while discriminated against, are a recognised minority in Iran with specific protections. Far more serious discrimination is aimed towards members of the Ba'hai faith, which is unrecognised despite being Iran's largest religious minority.

devourfeculence · 17/06/2025 13:01

willowtree99 · 17/06/2025 12:27

@Vinvertebrate

You literally asked us to "thank Israel" for the targeted assassination of scientists.

There is no discrepancy between what the IAEA says about Iran's nuclear capability and what the Iranian Government says it has. Both recognise that Iran has 400kg of 60% enriched uranium. So either you believe the IAEA, or you believe Iran is lying, you cant have it both ways.

I'm not sure why you are surprised that the Jewish population that lives in the historic land of Persia are Persian, but despite being 0.1% of the population, they none the less have a reserved seat in the Majles-e Shura-ye Eslami.

I never said Iran didn't want to destroy Israel, I think its quite understandable that they would want to see the dismantling of a state that is actively involved in terrorism in their country, assassinating its scientists (war crime), members of its government (war crime) and bombing nuclear facilities (war crime) and has called for the assassination of its leader. I said they did not want the destruction of Jews, an entirely different thing, but one which zionists are very keen to conflate.

@devourfeculence

Jews, while discriminated against, are a recognised minority in Iran with specific protections. Far more serious discrimination is aimed towards members of the Ba'hai faith, which is unrecognised despite being Iran's largest religious minority.

Jews, while discriminated against, are a recognised minority in Iran with specific protections. Far more serious discrimination is aimed towards members of the Ba'hai faith, which is unrecognised despite being Iran's largest religious minority.

Well that makes it all right then. 🙄

And the fact that you think it's understandable to want to destroy an entire country is beyond disturbing.

justasking111 · 17/06/2025 13:20

Didn't Hitler have scientists who experimented on people in the camps not just Jews by the way. But Russians, Roma's etc. giving scientists respectability because they're smarter than us just doesn't fly.

MushMonster · 17/06/2025 13:26

Yes, he very much did. And they did all sort on inhumane tests with them. The testimonies of the survivors are beyond chilling.
I have not read books or reports on the files left with their "research", because I cannot stomach what they could have done to the non surviving ones.

MushMonster · 17/06/2025 13:28

Humankind is capable of the most beautiful things, of incredible changes. Yet, also capable of the most unnamed things that our wildest imagination does not even scratch.
So, we are stuck in the middle. With intrustworthy world leaders, "sorting" our problems with wars......

MushMonster · 17/06/2025 13:30

We do have to trust something and someone though.
I have some hope that international agencies are not that affected when they need several independant verifications. But only history will tell....

Vinvertebrate · 17/06/2025 13:34

@willowtree99 No, I said that Israel’s precise targeting was to its credit, ie relative to indiscriminate bombing (of the type that, incidentally, Iran has since carried out in Tel Aviv and elsewhere). If it transpires that Israel’s actions have neutralised a nuclear threat against Israel, Europe and/or the US, that’s one positive, because (as U vd L recently said), Iran cannot be permitted to have nuclear weapons.

If Iran has enriched uranium to 60%, as the IAEA has stated, it is plainly not intended for benign civilian purposes. Which suggests that Khomeini’s fatwa was, not uncharacteristically, an exercise in dissembling bullshit.

I am not surprised in the slightest about the ethnicity of the Persian Jews. My husband is Persian, grew up in Iran and recalls all of his young Jewish school friends disappearing overnight after the revolution (along with many of his non-Jewish family members). The vast majority (90% or thereabouts) of the Jewish population fled to Israel and other countries, because Islamic theocracies are not renowned for their kindly treatment of Jews, and Iran is no exception. Funds were raised from wealthy Jewish diaspora to pay for the passage of any Jews wishing to leave Iran. Those who remained presumably felt more affinity to other ethnic Persians than to their co-religionists. They certainly didn’t stay because the regime was kind enough to give them a single seat in parliament - which is hardly a ‘gotcha’ seeing as Jews cannot take any other governmental or official role, are restricted in travel and education, have been “advised” (ahem) to cease any communications with family and friends in Israel and forced to attend anti-Israel protests. Not to mention the regime’s pesky habit of holocaust denial.

I’m also not sure that the fervent wish to annihilate Israel is quite so “understandable” if you consider the last 40 years of Islamist dictatorship in Iran, rather than the 18 months or so since October 7th (which, incidentally, was funded and conceived by Iran, the Hamas puppet master). Whereas Iran prefers to bleed Israel slowly to death by funding Islamist terrorism, Israel has chosen to strike openly and with impunity, to “cut the head off the snake” as I think the US once described it. I don’t condone Israel’s actions - its “a plague on both your houses” for me. But it’ll be a cold day in hell before I am complacent about the risk of a nuke in the hands of a lunatic Islamofascist dictator.

If anyone needs some light relief after all that (understandable) I highly recommend the scene in “The Dictator” where SBC is desperately trying to keep a straight face while promising he absolutely, definitely does not have any nuclear weapons. Apposite!

willowtree99 · 17/06/2025 15:02

@Vinvertebrate We know very well about Israel's precise targeting.

Precisely 335 bullets shot into a 6 year old Hind Rejab as she was trapped in a car with the corpses of her dead relatives, then precisely assassinating the paramedics who came to rescue her.

Just today, Israel has precisely bombed tents with elders, disabled and children waiting for their family members returning from attempting to get food, where they were precisely bombed and shot at while waiting in the aid queues. At least 70 were killed this morning.

Iran announced in 2020 that they had a national project to produce molybdenum-99, which decays into technetium 99m, the most common isotope used in medical imaging, but with a very short half-life (6 hours). The production of Moly99 requires 60% enriched uranium (although actually in the west, much of the moly99 production is done with 90% uranium, which is more efficient). Since the mid 2010s there has been a global shortage of moly99, which led Iran to seek self-sufficiency as Moly99 cannot be stockpiled (half-life =66 hours).

You may not be complacent about a nuke in the hands of Iran, but you seem remarkably complacent about a vast arsenal of nukes in the hands of a genocidal rogue state which commits daily war crimes with impunity and has a known strategy of global nuclear annihilation in the face of existential threat.

Vinvertebrate · 17/06/2025 16:01

@willowtree99 you're kind of proving my point here. Any of us can post emotive examples of atrocities perpetrated by Israel against Gazans (or indeed those carried out by Hamas on 7/10). It has no relevance whatsoever to whether or not Israel is correct or incorrect in deducing that Iran has, or is terrifyingly close to having, nuclear weapons. In your haste to condemn Israel, you are naively swallowing and regurgitating a lot of Iranian government rhetoric which is (at best) unreliable.

Do these so-called benign uses of enriched Uranium really require a >400kg stockpile of the 60% stuff? If so, why is the IAEA worried? After grumbling about Iran ignoring its non-proliferation obligations for years, why issue a statement now? Why were traces of Uranium enriched to 80% plus purity discovered during an inspection, with no explanation given? Why has the US decided to shorten its estimate of the time taken for Iran to develop enough material for a nuclear bomb to 2 weeks? Why was Iran’s response to the IAEA basically “fuck you - we’re going to do it anyway” if it only wants medical isotopes and energy? For a country which, according to people blinded by Israel-hate, has no nuclear ambitions, it’s doing a remarkable impression of having a secret nuclear program…

I do not condone any breach of international law by Israel, but I can see exactly why the only Jewish state in existence won’t hang around too long to see whether the US prediction of Iran’s breakout time is correct. Diplomacy takes time, which Israel may feel it doesn’t have.

The liberal left running to the defence of a totalitarian fascist dictator, just because he’s getting roughed up by a country they don’t like, requires a certain dexterity for mental gymnastics. But yes, I am more comfortable about Israel having nuclear weapons relative to Iran (preferably in line with international non-proliferation obligations), largely because Israel doesn’t call us “Satan”, burn our flag at government rallies or call for our destruction. Or maybe it’s some kind of unconscious bias as a result of my husband’s relatives being detained or ‘disappeared’ by a regime that you seem convinced are good faith actors, despite all evidence to the contrary.

esem · 17/06/2025 16:44

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Vinvertebrate · 17/06/2025 17:04

@esem I certainly have not used the words “legimate targets” in any of my posts (and I haven’t commented at all on the Gaza situation). I’ve pointed out that two different things can both be terrible at the same time, and that nuance is a thing. I’m also amused by contortionists trying to “prove” that a dictator who maintains power via a bunch of Islamofascist thugs must be alright really, because at least they hate the right people.

FWIW I am neither Israeli nor Jewish. My husband is Muslim.

willowtree99 · 17/06/2025 17:11

No, the continuing genocide is no indication whether Iran has nuclear weapons, but it is an indication that an existing nuclear state is willing to annihilate millions of people to achieve their aims.

The domestic demand for Moly99 in Iran is approx 150 ci/3g per week, . To produce 3g of Moly99 you need around 2.4 kg of 60% uranium. So Iran has stockpiled approximately 3 years of supply for domestic consumption assuming that they do not pursue their stated aims to become a moly99 supplier to the countries that they currently export other medical isotopes to (a lucrative trade, given the supply issues facing the industry and the high cost of transportation in tight timescales from distant facilities). Its current production level is 6kg per month.

The detection of 84% enriched uranium in trace amounts is a mystery. Iran claims sabotage (and given that we know that Mossad have been all over their country planting car bombs in nuclear scientists cars, its not so far fetched).

The US has been claiming that Iran is on the brink of developing nuclear weapons for well over 50 years, and given that the WMD hoax worked so well in manufacturing consent for the destruction of Iraq, maybe they thought they'd give that fairytale another whirl.

The head of negotiations for Iran, Ali Shamkhani, was on the brink of signing a deal with a permanent commitment never to develop nuclear weapons and also eradicate the stockpile of 60% enriched uranium, swapping instead for a far more inefficient process using 5% enrichment..only now he's never going to sign that commitment. Because Israel assassinated him, just like they assassinated the lead negotiator of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, on the brink of a hostage deal.

Killing is all Israel knows, from babies to scientists to negotiators to doctors, just an endless stream of death for anyone that gets in their way.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 17/06/2025 17:16

Vinvertebrate · 17/06/2025 17:04

@esem I certainly have not used the words “legimate targets” in any of my posts (and I haven’t commented at all on the Gaza situation). I’ve pointed out that two different things can both be terrible at the same time, and that nuance is a thing. I’m also amused by contortionists trying to “prove” that a dictator who maintains power via a bunch of Islamofascist thugs must be alright really, because at least they hate the right people.

FWIW I am neither Israeli nor Jewish. My husband is Muslim.

Then you will know that the Americans installed the Shah in Iran when they didn't like the Iranian's choice of democratic government, and so are indirectly responsible for the current Islamic revolutionary government. And whoever the Americans install after a bloody invasion is unlikely to be much better for the Iranian people. So there is very little to look forward to from that direction.

Vinvertebrate · 17/06/2025 17:51

TriesNotToBeCynical · 17/06/2025 17:16

Then you will know that the Americans installed the Shah in Iran when they didn't like the Iranian's choice of democratic government, and so are indirectly responsible for the current Islamic revolutionary government. And whoever the Americans install after a bloody invasion is unlikely to be much better for the Iranian people. So there is very little to look forward to from that direction.

Absolutely, and even the CIA has shown a smidgen of humility in relation to the questionable tactics in 1953, calling it “undemocratic” iirc. But life also improved for many Iranians under the Shah (not least for women, who got the vote and the state not telling them to wear, amongst other things). Again, nuance. It’s also interesting that religious conservatives aligned with liberal intellectuals (sound familiar?) to oppose the shah’s excesses and autocracy, then hoofed them out of government as soon as the country became an Islamic Republic. Rather like the US, a dictator is fine as long as he’s “our” dictator.

I don’t have much confidence that anyone, much less the US, will be able to unite the various factions in Iran if there is a regime change. It’s difficult for political opposition to galvanize in Iran, not least because the population is so fractured and dissidence is crushed.

Anyway, to answer the OP’s question, now that Vance has indicated that his orange overlord may join the fray, I’d say it’s looking a tad more likely.

MushMonster · 17/06/2025 18:57

This is all as clear as muck.

I was just reading the updates on the Guardian and they mentioned some CNN report about the US Intelligence take on Iran and the nuclear weapons. These days, I do try to find more than an outlet with info if I can. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-us-thought-iran-was-years-from-nuclear-bomb-not-months/
CNN is also mentioned in the Times of Israel.
There is a link to the CNN report https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/17/politics/israel-iran-nuclear-bomb-us-intelligence-years-away
And it is dated today.

Is Trump listening to his own people? Are they saying white in public and black in private, still, carrying on with the deception? But it makes no logical sense, because these are dated today.

Israel says Iran was racing toward a nuclear weapon. US intel says it was years away | CNN Politics

When Israel launched its series of strikes against Iran last week, it also issued a number of dire warnings about the country’s nuclear program, suggesting Iran was fast approaching a point of no return in its quest to obtain nuclear weapons and that t...

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/17/politics/israel-iran-nuclear-bomb-us-intelligence-years-away

Arlanymor · 17/06/2025 18:59

FumingTRex · 14/06/2025 22:41

Starmer hasnt said hes backing Israel. The situation is much more nuanced than that. Not all muslim countries back Iran either.

Exactly - this. ⬆️

Lindajonesjustcantlivemylife · 17/06/2025 20:13

MushMonster · 17/06/2025 13:26

Yes, he very much did. And they did all sort on inhumane tests with them. The testimonies of the survivors are beyond chilling.
I have not read books or reports on the files left with their "research", because I cannot stomach what they could have done to the non surviving ones.

Dr Mengle was an evil nutcase,his experiments were nothing short of madness.

esem · 17/06/2025 21:27

couldnt have put it better myself - thanks

esem · 17/06/2025 23:08

Vinvertibrate.......i think you have sent your (educated) reply to me incorrectly
I have no idea what you are replying to

bacekir593 · 18/06/2025 10:27

Hfox · 14/06/2025 23:14

I’ve seen how unhinged nethanyu and Israel.. they are unhinged and I would support literally anyone against Israel

Including Hamas?

TriesNotToBeCynical · 18/06/2025 10:38

bacekir593 · 18/06/2025 10:27

Including Hamas?

Note that it is a criminal offence in the UK to support Hamas.

Frogsdinners · 18/06/2025 15:15

Can someone answer as I’m slightly confused, if Iran goes to War with the US, will NATO have to respond?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/06/2025 15:22

Frogsdinners · 18/06/2025 15:15

Can someone answer as I’m slightly confused, if Iran goes to War with the US, will NATO have to respond?

No.

notimagain · 18/06/2025 15:24

Frogsdinners · 18/06/2025 15:15

Can someone answer as I’m slightly confused, if Iran goes to War with the US, will NATO have to respond?

It depends..

For example see Article 6 of the Treaty

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm

Newsenmum · 18/06/2025 16:16

Well Trump’s latest comments mean WW3 is not such a crazy idea after all…

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