What's wrong with sleepovers?

[PeatandDieselfan]

Accidentally watched a reel on Facebook the other day with an "influencer mommy" holding her PFB and boasting about all the things her baby will not be allowed to do over the next couple of decades, which included sleepovers (cue left-right wagging of perfectly manicured finger.) I didn't understand what she was on about, and obviously dismissed it as nonsense and gave my head a little wobble for even losing time to watching said nonsense, and went about my day.

Since then, I have noticed a few mentions on here of people not allowing their children to have sleepovers, or not before secondary school. I am genuinely interested why? Because, in my experience, sleepovers are a huge thrill for 6-11 year olds, mine loved it at that age, but now they teenagers/almost teenagers sleepovers aren't really "a thing" any more - they do different things with friends.

So why are parents anti-sleepover? I mean, I know it can be a pain to host them (sometimes) and kids are like zombies the next day, but they have a lot of fun, and it's a pretty short phase in the greater scheme of things, so why not? If it's a safeguarding thing, surely you could just have a rule about only with friends where you already know the parents/ have had a few successful playdates first, rather than a blanket (see what I did there!) ban?

From what I’ve heard I decided that my children will only have sleepovers at my parents a PIL houses and their cousins houses.ABSOLUTELY no way at any friends house which will be reevaluated when they are teens.

however I allow my children’s friends to sleepover often. Probably twice a month. I generally always say yes. I keep the parents informed of what their children are up to and will happily drive any child that stays here home in the middle of the night if they want to go home which hasn’t happened yet.

She wasn't 'making stuff up to pick a fight', it was a perfectly valid point. There is a certain safety in numbers.

It’s really unusual that you’re treating this with such a glib attitude.

No, I suspect you might already know that the majority indeed did not do their abusing during sleepovers. But countless child sex offenders that I’ve dealt with have been men with families and children of their own, who would take any opportunity presented to them. And these are genuinely men that you would likely trust based on face value alone.

But sleepovers are a risk, and an entirely avoidable one. So I personally choose to swerve them.

You are right that there is risk everywhere, more people than I care to think about that would do harm to our children if given the chance, so if there is a set of circumstances that carry that kind of risk and I can avoid that at zero detriment to my child, that’s what I will do.

I don’t judge anyone for allowing them, most of us are just doing our best with the information we have at our disposal, and some parents will be perfectly comfortable and happy to allow them, that’s their choice for their children.
But to say there’s bigger risks elsewhere doesn’t discount that there is still a risk.

What?! So your dc's friends come to your house but your dc aren't allowed to go to others? How do you square this with other parents and your poor kids .

Thing is, if you’d had a serious or life changing trampolining or go-karting experience then yes, you probably wouldn’t allow those activities.

I went on a school ski trip and one of my classmates died while tobogganing; I will now not allow those activities.

I imagine a lot of people who say no to sleepovers probably have some sort of experience or connection to abuse which has led them to that decision.

If you’ve only ever had positive experiences with something then of course you’d allow it but the inverse is also true.

A lot law enforcement professionals who deal with CSA cases say they would never allow sleepovers; obviously the majority of sleepovers are absolutely fine but because of what they witness day in and day out, there is unconscious bias there.

There is but it is also often the starting point for grooming. Which is the pre cursor for the majority of sexual abuse. One of the five leaves the room for a snack. Or some quiet time. Man in the home spots her. Starts a chat. And so it goes.

We are cautious (DC at primary). We do allow them but not only with a few local friends. We do have kids sleep over at our place a lot.

My almost 10 year old only has sleepovers with her cousin, and one friend. The one friend's mum is a single parent with no boys or men in the house and they live directly across the road so I'm more comfortable with it. I know it will change over the next few years in terms of wanting more sleepovers but I will always encourage them at her own house as much as possible. I've always said I would rather her hordes of teenage girls in my house than anywhere else.

Yeah, me too 😱

I don’t disagree with you at all actually. I know they do. My point was partly to say that I WOULD be concerned, in response to the previous poster saying that no one is ever concerned about those types of situations. The scouts has historically had a huge problem with abuse. I would definitely still be concerned and I know a DBS is not an absolute guarantee that someone has never abused a child because so many people understandably don’t come forward. Believe me on that from personal experience. My point was that there are at least (or should be) formal safeguarding arrangements in place which you can ask about in advance and decline to attend if you aren’t happy with them. I used to work in education and on residentials we would avoid entering the children’s rooms and stay in the doorway to check everyone was where they should be. If we did, we wouldn’t do so alone, so there was always oversight by another adult. Just as an example. Very sadly, there are no absolute guarantees. It’s about risk mitigation balanced with allowing children to have positive formative experiences. Each person makes the decision that they feel is best for their family and I definitely wouldn’ t judge someone for not allowing their child on a residential if they were unhappy.

We do then with very good friends, mainly at birthdays or special parties.

We used to have my son's friend stay over every other Friday when his nurse mum worked nights. He would stay over and then they would go off to football the next day, and she would rest in the morning and then pick both up. It was a lovely arrangement that both boys really enjoyed.

Husband was abused by his parents (both of them, not just the dad), he and his siblings pressed charges as adults. You really can never tell who is a danger; we've both agreed no sleepovers for our kids.

It’s really unusual that you’re treating this with such a glib attitude.

Asking a question is not glib! Disagreeing with you isn't glib either...,

I know exactly what a child sex offender looks like.

But to say there’s bigger risks elsewhere doesn’t discount that there is still a risk.

My point was the risk is very small & not doing them doesn't mean you have reduced all risk as some seem to think.

I was OK with my kids going to sleepovers with trusted families, once they were old enough for me to be certain they wouldn't get homesick (probably about age 8). It was annoying that they were tired the next day, but it was manageable.

But what I really really hated was hosting sleepovers. None of us got any sleep, constant demands, worrying about the visiting child, never knowing when they'd be leaving the next day etc. I hated it with a passion, and basically only hosted about 10 in total (2 kids).

You really can never tell who is a danger;

A abuser will look like your husband, dad, brother, neighbour. They will work as surgeons, priests, teachers etc

Someone who is dangerous very rarely looks dangerous

I’m pretty sure CSOs all look different and you can’t tell by looking…

Unless you meant something else and I’m misinterpreting

I went on a school ski trip and one of my classmates died while tobogganing; I will now not allow those activities.

I wasn't allowed to ski because of something my parents witnessed when skiing.

If it's a safeguarding thing, surely you could just have a rule about only with friends where you already know the parents/ have had a few successful playdates first, rather than a blanket (see what I did there!) ban?

@PeatandDieselfan it is a safeguarding thing and when you balance the risk with the benefits - there is no real point. Children can play and develop friendships during the day/after school weekend without have a sleep over. The only possible benefit is learning about independence but they will develop this anyway.

Even if you 'know' the parents, you have zero idea whether the child is safe from a a sexual abuse point of view in lots of ways.

First, sexual abuse of children by adults happens precisely because the abuser obtains a trusted status and access. They don't run round with a big advert saying I'm a creepy pedo. They are precisely people who are 'trusted'.
Second, you won't have access to even a CRB check for a parent which is no guarantee anyway but you don't even have that.
Third, you don't know whether there is risk from siblings of your child's friend (brothers).
Fourth, and this is the most important thing, you have no control and no knowledge of who else is in the house. A granddad might pop in and stay over night. The siblings may have other boys staying as friend. Cousins and so on.

It's all out of your control and a bit of social fun can be achieved in other ways without that risk.

It's of course true there is risk when a child is out of sight anyway, but staying over night, bathing, nudity when changing into night clothes, night clothes without underwear much greater opportunity when others are sleeping.

I’m pretty sure CSOs all look different and you can’t tell by looking…

That's exactly what I meant.

Unless you think they walk around with neon signs about their heads or badges?

Second, you won't have access to even a CRB check for a parent which is no guarantee anyway but you don't even have that.

It doesn't mean anything as you say but does depend on your circle. Most of my friends are DBS checked including myself.

It's not just about risk of sexual abuse, it's about parenting style too. My eldest now an adult used to go to sleepovers with his friend when he was 8. I found out later that he had been severely told off for not eating his dinner and not allowed an ice cream, while they all sat and ate theirs. Another time she took them to work with her and they were running in and out of lifts and his friend almost got himself stuck in the lift when the doors closed. So with my younger kids I've learned my lesson and I'm much more selective with who can take them and no overnights, other than family.

That’s interesting because someone being a scout leader (or youth group leader, or Sunday school teacher) would be a red flag for me.

Tangentially related.. I used to sleep over a friends house around the corner from me often when I was in school. It would be several of the girls from our track/cross country team, plus one or two boys from our friend group. (I’m surprised my mum allowed that with the boys there, considering she wouldn’t let me upstairs alone with my first boyfriend! Ironically, I felt safer with them being there because my friends dad was kind of creepy. Sometimes I would wake up at night and find him staring into the room where we were sleeping.)

One night, I walked back home in the dark to grab a toothbrush or something, and my mum came to the door. She accused me of doing drugs because my pupils were huge. I was like “No? I just came in from the dark.” Idk if she believed me. She let me go back though!

@somanythingssolittletime older brothers yes and younger dds , perfect position of that slightly glamorous older person who seems cool abusing their powers, if they are that way inclined.

Being trapped in someone's House with other people, going to loo etc, Hidden corners.

We just have to be careful one person maybe the most genuinely trust worthy person ever but suddenly something happens and an opportunity arises, something happens and they taken it

I agree with this, I don’t want to do sleepovers either. I have a 5 month old so have plenty of time before I worry about that. Do you have the same rules for play dates?