Really offended a friend. Would this upset you?

[Eastie77Returns]

Arranging where to go to dinner on a group chat with 3 friends and came up with a shortlist of restaurants. One friend (‘Sally’) said she could not afford any of those venues. The other 2 friends suggested some cheaper options but she said it was still too pricey as she has to factor in travel and babysitting costs for the evening. So we asked her to suggest somewhere and she came up with a pub that is honestly not somewhere I’d choose to eat (or drink for that matter) but by this time the group had been going back and forth for days so I said if everyone was in agreement we should go. We had a nice evening. The food was not very good and the pub attracts a rough crowd so not a great atmosphere but we sat in the garden and all enjoyed catching up.

My other two friends then messaged me separately and suggested that the three of go to one of the restaurants Sally had vetoed.

Can I ask if you were Sally, would you be upset or offended at this? She found out and is really hurt.

Of course she’s upset. She already felt crappy because she couldn’t afford to go to the places everyone else wanted to go and then she felt even worse when she found out that she’d been secretly left out because her suggestion wasn’t good enough.

Anyone who doesn’t get this hasn’t struggled with money to the extent that they feel embarrassed in front of their friends.

If there is a next time maybe do something where money isn’t a deciding factor.

I think because you're assuming this is a one off. It's likely it's going to keep cropping up, unless Sally suddenly comes into money, so paying for her this time is only going to delay the situation and probably make it worse.

I haven't assumed this is a one off, in my first post I noted that there may be a reason they haven't offered to pay.

Telling their friend that they're going ahead with the expensive plans but she's welcome to join if she can afford to is the best way to handle such an awkward situation

If that's how the dynamic of the group has evolved then it's not really a close friendship group any more, is it?

They will do something where money is not a deciding factor when they do something with Sally. As they did before.
There's no reason everything they do has to be with Sally, whether or not Sally can afford it.

That's just how things are, People change. They have kids, move, get different jobs. Stop enjoying what others enjoy, or can't afford things the others now can. Being in a WhatsApp group is not a contract for life.

I couldn't maintain a friendship if those friends kept wanting to do things I couldn't afford thus leaving me out.
They'd either change what we all did, or we'd go our separate ways.

Now and again it's OK to bow out, but definitely not behind anyone's back and not if it becomes a pattern with the same person.

If you normally hang out as a foursome, then I think it was a bit shit not to invite her.

There’s nothing wrong with saying “me, Jo, and Sarah want to try the menu at XX restaurant so we’re thinking of going on XX date. Would love you to come but I know you said it was over budget for you last time. Just wanted to give you the option of coming too as I’d never want you to feel left out - totally understand if you can’t stretch to it at the moment.”

For context, I have autistic DC, one with high needs. I can’t do a lot of things that my friends do. I go to things as much as I can but anything overnight or a distance away is out of the question, sadly.

My friends pretty much always include me in the invite and I appreciate it so much. It’s hard when friends are doing things that you’d normally be part of, but knowing that you were thought of and wanted makes all the difference.

One friend had a big birthday last year and organised a week’s trip to an overseas destination. Friend forgot to tell me. I found out just before they flew. Knowing they’d all been chatting and planning it for a year but no one had mentioned it did really hurt, tbh.

If you tell her and she gets shitty, that’s another matter. You’re totally allowed to organise things she can’t join in with. It’s the secrecy that’s so hurtful.

If you don’t usually hang out together then it’s not really an issue. But if you three don’t usually meet up without her, I think you should have said something.

Friendship is not such an all or nothing proposal for a lot of people.

But just because four people are mates that doesn’t mean they’re only allowed to meet as a foursome, surely?

And what’s the point of inviting someone to a restaurant she has repeatedly told you she can’t afford? Surely that’s just rubbing her nose in the fact that she can’t afford it?

I have two good friends I often meet with as a three. But I also see each of them separately at times for convenience or to do things one of them wouldn’t enjoy or couldn’t get to. We don’t feel the need to run this past one another, because we’re adults.

No, two people meeting up spontaneously, is different to 3 people of a group of 4 leaving out a poor friend by not even telling her they're meeting up

A simple conversation, that's all this needs

A year's planning for a week's holiday is a bit different from suggesting a trip to a restaurant on Thursday that you already know someone doesn't want to go to.

"But just because four people are mates that doesn’t mean they’re only allowed to meet as a foursome, surely?"

For some people, apparently it does! Strange to me as well.

I have a friend like this but it's with smoking. She is a heavy smoker and finds it hard to go for long without . So we will suggest somewhere and she always says why dont you come here to her house. But we want to go out , we find it hard to be around constant smoke and yet it means leaving her out . So how is that fair if we always have to accommodate her . Very tough and done of us in the group are getting totally fed up with it.

I’d be sad if I wasn’t asked. And if it was done in secret it would make me really anxious that I had done something to the group.

Depends how she found out. Was it plastered all over social media?

It sounds like the arrangement to meet up at the restaurant you knew Sally couldn't afford was made quite soon after the pub meal. That does feel like quite a pointed dig, and if I were Sally I'd be upset. That being said, if Sally has a much more restricted budget than the rest of you, I think she does need to understand that she can't expect a right of veto over you ever doing anything that she can't afford. I think a better way to handle the situation would be, "Hi Sally. A, B and I are going for a meal at [name of restaurant] on [date]. If you'd like to join us, please let me know before [date] so I can book a table." I think you need to phrase things in a way that makes clear you are not giving Sally a right of veto over whatever you're doing. But if you value having a friendship group of four, you do need to make sure that Sally is not priced out of most of your meet ups.

What if finances had changed and she could now afford it?

I think personally it’s less hurtful to know you were thought of and wanted, even if your personal circumstances means you can’t go.

Obviously much depends on their dynamic. If they regular break off into small groups of 2 or 3, then it’s not an issue. But if they usually only do meals etc as a foursome, it’s shitty not to say something.

It’s the secrecy that is hurtful, not the fact you can’t go.

How did she find out?

....she found out that she’d been secretly left out because her suggestion wasn’t good enough.

But they went to the place she suggested, for their regular meetup. This was an additional outing.

And I agree it would be insensitive to keep asking Sally if she wanted to do things she has repeatedly said she can't afford.

Where do you draw the line? If three out of four people want to go and see a particular film or to the ballet or have a trip to London to see an exhibition, should they not do it because the fourth doesn't want to or can't afford it?

If you're an established group of 4 who meet up to catch up, then to me, the location is always less important than the company, so i'd cater to the lowest budget. If I was that keen to eat in one of the restaurants I'd have gone with my partner or another friend and kept the activities for your group of 4 inclusive for all.

Sounds good but you can’t be expected to do that every time.

So the other three are never allowed to try the restaurant they'd like to?

Fianances changed in a couple of weeks?

It's just a couple of people going out for dinner, they are not organising a reception for the King. Not mentioning a night out to someone you don't think would want to go isn't being "secretive".

I mean, if these nights out happen once every six months and are the highlights of all of their social calendars then maybe, but the OPs posts give me no feeling that this is the case at all. They're just going out for a meal as people do all the time without it being a big occasion.

So to you, that group has to always be that group, and you can't do anything with one or two of the others?

To me this is bizarre and not remotely how friendship works.