Really offended a friend. Would this upset you?

[Eastie77Returns]

Arranging where to go to dinner on a group chat with 3 friends and came up with a shortlist of restaurants. One friend (‘Sally’) said she could not afford any of those venues. The other 2 friends suggested some cheaper options but she said it was still too pricey as she has to factor in travel and babysitting costs for the evening. So we asked her to suggest somewhere and she came up with a pub that is honestly not somewhere I’d choose to eat (or drink for that matter) but by this time the group had been going back and forth for days so I said if everyone was in agreement we should go. We had a nice evening. The food was not very good and the pub attracts a rough crowd so not a great atmosphere but we sat in the garden and all enjoyed catching up.

My other two friends then messaged me separately and suggested that the three of go to one of the restaurants Sally had vetoed.

Can I ask if you were Sally, would you be upset or offended at this? She found out and is really hurt.

I think going behind her back was shitty and of course she's going to be upset because she's the only one who hasn't been invited so she is going to feel excluded.

If she was truly my friend then I'd always make sure she was included such as picnic lunches, going around to each others houses, bbq's etc.

I would've saved the expensive places for dates with DH and the such like.

As I said, if they always go out as a foursome, it's a big deal.

If they regularly socialise without all four of them there, it's not a big deal.

A lot depends on the dynamics of the group. The fact that the friend is hurt suggests that they usually do stuff all together otherwise this wouldn't be an issue for anyone.

Also, my finances swing dramatically throughout the month - it's not inconceivable. But as they didn't ask, they don't know.

I think from your previous comments, you have quite a fluid social group. That's not the case for everyone, which perhaps explains the differences in opinion.

No, that's not what I said. One or two people doing something different isn't the same as a whole group having a meet up somewhere only one person can't afford. If its bizarre to you to prioritise including everyone over location, and your friends agree, then that's fine. I'd do it differently and that's also fine.

But Sally HAS been invited to the Ivy, and has declined the offer several times. Alternative arrangements were made to specifically suit her.
Let’s face it if she’d been invited again then she would have declined again, she’s upset to have been left out because you went anyway. Maybe there was another reason for her declining, for example she doesn’t like fancier places, in which case it would be rude to persist with asking when she’s already said no multiple times.
Group activities like this shouldn’t take months to arrange or be so complex that they never happen. And suggesting that she may want chance to save up to go is ridiculous - if finances are such a problem for her then saving up just to go to a restaurant isn’t going to be an option.

Has she said why she is hurt though? Wouldn't bother me, she had the option, said no. Doesn't mean it's out of bounds for the rest of you.

Yes I would be hurt if it’s the norm to meet up together and you didnt tell her

I meet with 3 other friends, we try to arrange dates to next meet and if for any reason one of them cancels i just meet up with whoever is left but we all know it’s going to happen

you were mean not to say anything. You could have just said look we really want t9 try. Xx can yo7 make it? If not we will see you next time

I wonder if it's the timing more than anything. Whether you invited her (to include her) or didn't (to spare her feelings), going to the proposed restaurant soon after you'd met up might feel rather that you've all agreed the evening in her choice of pub wasn't good enough. And TBF it does sound rather like you all thought it wasn't.

I'm not sure what the time interval was, but maybe the 2 evenings out just needed to be less obviously connected.

Is it usually the four of you? I think you called it wrong. I think you should have invited everyone but made clear you were going to this place this time, Sally very welcome but understood if she wished to sit this out.

I also think try and compromise on budget as much as possible if there's one group member with less budget available at current.

Fine to go out sometimes elsewhere but setting up groups excluding one valued friend sets a bad tone and a bad precedent for the group. Ok to go to the restaurant but I think apologise and get better at having difficult conversations. People don't always have to like your decisions, but they generally appreciate honesty.

If I were Sally, yes a genuine reaction, I'd be hurt. I wouldn't mind that the 3 of you still want to try it but it would be the secrecy that would hurt me.

I'd prefer a text to let me know - something like, 'Hey Sally, we're going to try Restaurant X as we really fancy giving it a go - we'd obviously love for you to come too but totally understand if it's tricky for you. Just didn't want you to feel out of the loop!' Etc etc.

Bit of a double-whammy that! We didn’t like your choice and we’re going to leave you out next time. I struggle to see how any of you could not forsee how offensive that would be to Sally.

If I were Sally I would be hurt, BUT having said that I don't believe you have anything to feel guilty about.

I can’t see that you’ve done much wrong , how did she find out ?

Do you remember the Friends episode - The One with Five Steaks and an Eggplant? Were you more on team Rachel/Phoebe/Joey or team Chandler/Monica/Ross?

I don't think either you or Sally is wrong if you normally go out as a group of friends. You are not wrong to want to go to more expensive places, Sally is not wrong to be upset that her friends chose to have meet ups in places they know she can't afford, hiding it just adds to the awkwardness of the whole situation.

Her being upset is normal, she is not, as some say, "dictating" to you where you can and cannot go, it is her reality - she is expressing that you do not understand her situation and that she feels excluded.

Ultimately the three of you need to ask yourselves if you value going to expensive places over her company, friendship and feelings. If you prefer the more expensive places then phase her out now. Continuing to make plans that exclude her while pretending everything is fine is just going to deepen her hurt and that is not fair on her.

I agree with all of this.

It's four people...two people is half the group. Is it ok for two of them to do something, but if the third gets involved they then have to bring the fourth in?

I wouldn't be upset at having to say not this time I can't afford it but I would be hurt at it being done behind my back

She might be hurt but that is a her problem. There is no way that you should not be 'allowed' to visit a restaurant with mutual friends when one is unable (for whatever reason) or doesn't want to go.

This works if there are occasions when different members of the group see Sally in a 2/3 as well.
But if it's either cheap place with Sally or secret meeting without her, I can see why she would be upset.
If I were Sally I would much rather one of the three told me they were going to the expensive restaurant and they would see me next time.
If Sally is kind of forbidding them for going there at all because she can't, then I'd be more on OP's side.

I’d be hurt if it was done secretly behind my back. But if I was invited and it was explained that people really wanted to go to this particular restaurant and I declined due to finances then I wouldn’t be hurt as you made a compromise on the previous night out.

Sorry - quoted wrong poster - and no delete.

I agree with BellissimoGecko, by bringing something with you your friend can always buy something from a cheaper supermarket. Or meet up at one of the group's houses and order in a takeaway.

I think that's fine, just invite her but say totally understand if you can't....next time....

I would be very hurt by this if I genuinely couldn’t afford it. Unless you’re a friendship group built on trying nice places to eat, I would rather go somewhere cheap and actually see and involve my friends than exclude someone because they can’t afford it.
although if she can afford it and is just being picky or controlling (only you know this! Then I wouldn’t feel guilty)

NRTFT I agree with others, it's the going behind her back that would upset me. I'd suggest it in the group maybe for a date that gives her time to save for it if she can/wants to. As others have said, Id have suggested a picnic/takeaway rather than a restaurant for the initial meet up

Seems like a shady friend group if you were all on board with leaving her out.

At the very least I would’ve told her we were going beforehand (not asked) and let her know she could just pay for her own, get water, or possibly offered to contribute if it’s not going to be a common occurrence. Just in case she’d make a last min decision to come and not be left out.

Is a fancy restaurant more important than her friendship? I guess so.