How to tell DD no sleepovers

[NoSleepOver]

Hi,
My DD is 10 and some of the girls in her year at school have gradually started to have or go to sleep overs. One of the girls in my DD’s class has now invited 5 of them for a sleepover for her birthday.
Now each to their own but I will say that I am very much against sleepovers. I’ve just decided it’s a blanket no. The problem I have now is my DD asking me why not. I know the girls parents fairly well - they aren’t friends of mine but I’ve known them a few years, they seem decent enough and we’ve spent time together with the kids outside of school. But of course you never really know, hence why I’m just saying no to sleepovers for the foreseeable future. I know not everyone will agree, but this is the decision I have made.
DD is now asking me why she can’t go and obviously I can’t say because her parents might be p**s! I obviously don’t think they are, but you never can tell can you. And it’s easier say no to everyone than yes to some and no to others.
To DD so far I’ve said she might not like it and want to come home, that she has no means to contact me as she doesn’t have a phone - DD wants to go and obviously doesn’t understand the issue, so insists she won’t want to come home and that if she needs to speak to me she will ask the parents to contact me.
Help me make it make sense to her and why it’s ok for other people to go and not her!

How sad that what should be an innocent sweet fun childhood experience has been ruined by the actions of some disgusting men 😢

Just had dinner with my Dd and a friend and her teen Dd many remincenses by the teens of their childhood sleepovers. We were in a tight clique where parents were friends and the girls were friends too we allowed sleepovers with those families only.

I think your daughter has a good point, rather than looking for ideas of how to wriggle out of this dilemma I think you need to ask yourself why you are refusing, and whether the reason is rational, because at 10 I think she should be mature enough to handle a sleepover- and if not why not?
You can't reasonably enforce a hard no without being able to tell her why you feel this way- "because I say so" is just not good enough.
Fear of abuse is not really good enough either- far, far more abuse goes on in the home than at sleepovers. Children are far more aware of abuse these days ,so the possibility is vanishingly slim.
It may be your job and no one else's to keep your child safe- but if they are to have a life of their own, and be out in the world you have to accept that you can't protect them 24/7, and being so protective is likely to be counter productive as your child will blame you for the things they missed out on, and not develop naturally.

If it's that common, protect your daughters all you want but also make sure to teach your sons not to become abusers.

I have heard of a quite horrific sleepover story from a colleague, so am probably more careful than most.

However, we do allow sleepovers after checking as best we can with the parents.

I never went to a sleepover and had a very strict upbringing but I still end up being sexually abused.

Years down the line, I need therapy not for the sexual assault I had but for all the teachings / control I received from my family who made me believe as a child that the world is a very scary place. I have anxiety and find it hard to relax. I also was isolated from doing things my friends, peers did, which caused being left out from opportunities to have normal fun experiences with friends and have resulted in me not having any close friends.

I am not saying this is what Op's daughter's experience will be but some posters said isolation is better than abuse, so just wanted to give a different perspective.

Both are bad.

We always had a rule. I had to know the parents or at least have met them ( secondary ). I have said no to a few for my daughter but equally she’s been to a few too. She’s now 14. I have collected her ( last year ) at 10/11 pm as a compromise. I really do think it’s a balancing act. It is an important rule to have. Far too many parents can be really complacent about this. I think collecting during the evening is a good compromise. They don’t see it that way but stick to your guns. Equally I’ve hosted many sleepovers and there have been parents who collected as they didn’t know us. They said they had something on early next day which is a good excuse.We have an older boy too who had the same rules.

with five kids there I’d be less worried to be honest, if you ban your daughter from sleepovers with her friendship group she’s going to end up isolated and left out really not great for her going forward these sleepovers with girls really bond them as a group, she’s gonna be on the outside of it This seems to be more about you than her well-being to be honest. I think you need to rethink it.
being in with the girls becomes so impossible at school especially in looming teens
i took a similar stance as I didn’t know the parents at all
big mistake on my part tbh
long term ramifications totally out weigh your fears

It's really sad that you're so worried about paedophilia. Why do you feel like this? How would you feel if there were male teachers going on a trip?

You really can't go through life worrying that everyone you meet (I regrettably know of several cases involving women) might be a paedophile.

By 10 most children have been exposed to porn on the internet. It's a really shocking and equally depressing statistic.

I think it's okay to tell your DD that you don't feel you know Sleepover's Parents well enough for YOU to feel comfortable about having her sleep over. Make it about Videos, TV Shows, Computer Games, Internet etc.

I don't think it's okay to have reservations about the Residential or be saying that you're relieved it's only female teachers going. So many male teachers leave the profession because parents are always muttering that the only males who'd want to teach must be paedophiles.

Also, I suspect your child is more at risk from kids in school than from trusted adults... Even KS1 learn about PANTS. She might not be ready for the Cup of Tea talk (KS3) but talking about autonomy and privacy is important... And some girls will have started their periods already so it's probably time for the periods chat too. Use proper terms for things as well.

Once I hit 14 and finally started going to sleepovers I loved it but sadly I was abused by a friends father at a sleep over whilst I forced myself to pretend to be asleep, it later transpired that I wasn't the only one. I understand that this is probably quite a rare occurrence but that fact my mum tried to protect me for so long for it to happen anyway makes me feel very sad for her as well as she wanted so badly to protect me.

This is such a sad story.

Why, oh why, oh why, are we bringing up our daughters to think that their best defence against abuse is to put up with it??? This is where we are letting our girls down - we should be teaching them to shout, to scream, to fight back. Or at the very least to say something in the morning.

OP, I think it's cruel to stop your daughter going to sleepovers with her friends. It will separate her from her friendship group and make her life more difficult, as well as depriving her of fun.
You can't make her life perfectly safe, you might as well tell her not to cross the road in case she gets hit by a car, or not to breathe polluted air.
You have to balance risks, and what you are doing here is trading a definite (but small) harm against a tiny likelihood of a much greater harm.

I like to think teens now are more assertive than we were. Dd refuses to go to one friends house due to the dad not that he’s pervy but he’s quite unkind.

Teens now will assertively say they don’t like food etc whilst I remember as a teen forcing down food I hated at other peoples houses just to be polite.

Why, oh why, oh why, are we bringing up our daughters to think that their best defence against abuse is to put up with it??? This is where we are letting our girls down - we should be teaching them to shout, to scream, to fight back. Or at the very least to say something in the morning.

this is a very weird take - you would expect a 14 year old to kick off against a grown adult (male) stranger? You know that freeze is a legitimate trauma response? I.e it’s actually fight, flight or freeze. A child being abused by an adult is so much more likely because of huge power imbalance - mentally, physically and socially. Even grown women struggle to fight back against attackers. Also fighting back doesn’t save someone from the trauma…

Also, stats indicate (uk based) 1 in 6 children are sexually abused. I actually don’t think that’s a tiny risk, surely less children are hit by cars.

It's your choice, but statistically it's more likely one of your family members/family friends is a paedophile and will abuse your daughter, than it is a stranger at a sleepover will.

Regarding overnight stays, I have a related story from when I was six. I went on a residential trip with a youth group, my dad came as a helper, and slept in one of the boys’ dorms (probably unthinkable now!). We left after only one night, and many years later, my dad explained why: in the daytime, some of the teenage helpers were having sex with each other, in the children’s dorms. I was blissfully unaware, but he told me that some of the young children knew about this, perhaps from walking in on them. Should I be feeling that I had a lucky escape? My parents could easily have prevented me from going to other overnight events anywhere after that, and they might have had good reason, but they chose not to, and I went on school residentials as normal, and sleepovers. I suppose I was brought up with the idea that it’s fine to take small risks, if you take appropriate precautions.

I also know someone male who volunteered with an autistic 12-year-old boy, took him on outings, and once took him camping (because the boy really wanted to do this), and they shared a small tent. It was all with the boy’s mum’s consent, agreed in writing, and he was CRB checked, as all volunteers were. I was surprised he dared to do this (in 2003), and he said he knew it was a small risk, but there was enough mutual trust, and everybody was happy with the arrangement.

you're ridiculous.

She will likely resent you for this when she's older. My mum's paranoia meant I missed out on things like sleepovers or going out with friends alone at a normal age.
It just meant that once I was old enough to actually have some freedom I went too far with it and got into some dangerous situations. If you carry on sheltering her like this at 12, 13, 14 then you'll likely end up with issues once she's 15, 16, 17 and pushes back against it.
Give her one of your phones for the night if need be, or buy her a cheap pay as you go. There's 5 girls there, if there's an issue she will phone you.

this is a very weird take - you would expect a 14 year old to kick off against a grown adult (male) stranger? You know that freeze is a legitimate trauma response? I.e it’s actually fight, flight or freeze. A child being abused by an adult is so much more likely because of huge power imbalance - mentally, physically and socially. Even grown women struggle to fight back against attackers. Also fighting back doesn’t save someone from the trauma…

Also, stats indicate (uk based) 1 in 6 children are sexually abused. I actually don’t think that’s a tiny risk, surely less children are hit by cars.

Not weird at all. This isn't a dark alley we're talking about, or a hotel room, but someone's house with other people around. Making a noise is an appropriate response.

NSPCC stats suggest 1 in 20, not 1 in 6 (but still much higher than I had thought, I agree).

It's op's choice of course, but I wanted to make the point that you can't ensure absolute safety. And that there's a cost in trying to do so.

Personally I would want to equip my daughter to face problems and deal with them, not avoid good experiences just because "something" might happen.

My kids will never go on a residential! I would never trust a teacher or other pupils I barely know to leave my kids with them for nights on end and worse of all, with no means to contact me! Awful.

@Hertsmum78 It is an interesting discussion. Like others have said, the no sleepovers rule is something I have taken away from interacting with professionals in the area. And whilst using cars and aeroplanes are not really avoidable, sleepovers are. So it feels like an easy mitigation for a risk with a low probability of occurring but very serious impact should it occur. I also don't perceive all the benefits that others do regarding sleepovers and I don't think the risk is all that low.

@TropicalRain Yep I understand what you're saying but I think this is about 'perceived risk', as you say, because genuinely, none of us knows the actual chance of abuse taking place at a sleepover. On principle, I think it is bad to hold our children back from things that are potentially fun for them because of what is excessive anxiety on our part. I think this risks two sorts of harm: 1. they miss out on the fun thing - agree, this might not be world-changing, but it's important nonetheless and 2. more importantly for me, they grow up feeling the world is an anxiety-inducing place full of risks.

I actually let my children do some things I firmly believe are more risky than sleepovers. Skiing is the obvious one. I don't believe skiing is mainly safe, the risks are much higher than I myself would be comfortable with (for me). But they absolutely love it, as does their dad. So I balance my anxieties about potential harm with their pleasure and enjoyment, not because I believe skiing is something one can't live without, but because I want them to grow up being more confident and less risk averse than I am.

@Hertsmum78 I feel the same re: your second point, and skiing is an example I can relate to. I do think it is important to nurture their spirits in a way where they want to embrace life and opportunities rather than be anxious and too risk averse. It is a balance indeed to strike!

Why would you want a bunch of kids in your house until late when it's probably more important for them to have a proper, routine night's sleep.

Sleep is very undervalued and I think many of them are allowed devices in their beds - massive risk to be got at online when no one is monitoring them.

Sleepovers are irrelevant really in the grand scheme of things and very avoidable in terms of risk.

All risk, practically is avoidable- what about the risk of going to school- paedophiles are attracted to workplaces with children, will you home school them? This is an avoidable risk (a far higher one than a sleepover BTW) TV and mobile phones can give you cancer so they are out, many foods have dangers, they are out, any kind of medical procedure or medication has risks-they are avoidable-how much life is left if you avoid all risks?
You really need to look at your attitude to life- it is very distorted