How to tell DD no sleepovers

[NoSleepOver]

Hi,
My DD is 10 and some of the girls in her year at school have gradually started to have or go to sleep overs. One of the girls in my DD’s class has now invited 5 of them for a sleepover for her birthday.
Now each to their own but I will say that I am very much against sleepovers. I’ve just decided it’s a blanket no. The problem I have now is my DD asking me why not. I know the girls parents fairly well - they aren’t friends of mine but I’ve known them a few years, they seem decent enough and we’ve spent time together with the kids outside of school. But of course you never really know, hence why I’m just saying no to sleepovers for the foreseeable future. I know not everyone will agree, but this is the decision I have made.
DD is now asking me why she can’t go and obviously I can’t say because her parents might be p**s! I obviously don’t think they are, but you never can tell can you. And it’s easier say no to everyone than yes to some and no to others.
To DD so far I’ve said she might not like it and want to come home, that she has no means to contact me as she doesn’t have a phone - DD wants to go and obviously doesn’t understand the issue, so insists she won’t want to come home and that if she needs to speak to me she will ask the parents to contact me.
Help me make it make sense to her and why it’s ok for other people to go and not her!

Although I'm OK with sleepovers, I think its important to note that those who are in favour are not unaware of risks of CSA or are feckless parents. To me the most terrifying element of paedophiles is the fact they are not obvious and never will be. Its as likely to be your DH as any other man and you may genuinely not know. I said upthread and I'll repeat, it's a little arrogant to assume you can detect it when no one else can. In fact statistically it's more likely to be a family member. My Dh and teenage son could be, both grandfathers could be, my BIL where DC had sleepovers could be, 4 male friends of DH and I who went on a group family holiday could be. My kids have been exposed to these risks, not to mention friend's fathers, coaches, teachers and neighbours. I could dwell on this and drive myself crazy with paranoia or I could have faith and hope all will be OK and allow my children to live their best lives. The risk is always there, always, and always will be. Yes it can be reduced by saying no to this but the reduction is miniscule IMO and needs to be weighed carefully.

@Dontlletmedownbruce I decline sleepovers for this very reason. I assure you it’s not the family per se, but if I don’t know you, then my DC do not sleep at your home. It’s as simple as that.

No parent in their right mind would allow their DC to sleep at the homes of people they do not know .

For me its about weighing up the dangers. To go back to the helmet thing... recovering from broken arm is easier than traumstic head injury. Recovering from upsetting night away is easier than recovering from sexual abuse. And it's okay for children to be upset or homesick, it won't kill them, in fact I'm very glad they were able to express such upset to you and had you to comfort them. We need to let our kids be upset and annoyed at us when we make tough but sensible decisions for them.

My children get plenty of opportunities for growth. If missing sleepovers causes some long lasting stunted emotional growth so be it but I don't know anyone mentally scarred from no sleepovers. However I do, through my line of work, know people in their 50s, 60s and 70s still severely affected by CSA.

I agree a hard rule is a good one but will you let her have sleepovers at your house?

@Unexpectedlysinglemum Personally, I would advise the OP not to do this. If she feels that sleepovers are unsafe, they're also unsafe in her house.

Sadly, MN is full of threads by ppl who've discovered that their partner isn't the person they thought they were, so she can't take the risk. How can she know for sure that her partner or family member is trustworthy around children? Both my DH and I are DBS checked as we do volunteer activities with children, but that's no guarantee. As others have said, what about the teachers, activity leaders, clergy, etc. who are convicted of child abuse? Something happened at a local school here less than a decade ago, for example, and of course the teacher was DBs checked.

It’s tricky to find what you are comfortable with.

Be honest but don’t promise you will change your mind at say 12 - if you feel this way now you will still likely feel the same way then. As other have said give your child as much information around the what to do if sadly a situation arrives - I know in our home we are as open as possible and ensuring we use the right terminology. Sadly we can’t protect from all situations that may arise :(

One of my daughters friend attends the sleepover but leaves at around 10:30. I’m not sure of the reason why & no one asks.

OP stand by your decision. There is a world of difference between a 14+ year old for example and a 10 year old. Many many parents do not do sleepovers.
My advice for you as how to frame is (at this young age of 10), is to say, as others have suggested, that that is the rule of your household, that all parents have different rules, but that at her age you feel this is best.

You could also say pick her up at 10 or 11 pm if you wanted her to go for the evening. Even when my children were older and having sleepovers, some parents did this and no one batted an eyelid. Kids accept that this is just how so and so's parents are. And that you can revisit these rules as she gets older.
Same as any age appropriate thing, for example age ratings for movies, U, PG, 12, 15 and 18. Because there is a difference in ages. Good luck.

'You could also say pick her up at 10 or 11 pm if you wanted her to go for the evening. Even when my children were older and having sleepovers, some parents did this and no one batted an eyelid. Kids accept that this is just how so and so's parents are'

People do bat eyelids though. The kids who are picked up early are seen as babies and they then don't feel included as everyone then talks about the night at school and poor kid has to explain what their parents were fretting over.

This is about parents managing their own fears and anxieties . I bet some of the parents who don't allow sleepovers are the same ones stuck in a crisis that they don't have a network of friends who can help with school runs etc as they've isolated themselves so much.

Kids should be allowed to have fun with their friends at sleepovers certainly by 10 years old. Teach them what to do if they are scared, get to know parents and just unclench or else they'll grow up to be a screwed up mess.

This is good advice in my opinion, and relevant to many aspects of parenting.

If you know the family really well, you will know exactly who will be there that evening. What older siblings will be there. What their rules are regarding internet / social media and film usage. You will trust them to look after your child in a manner that you would agree with.
I wouldn’t be letting anyone have my child for any longer length of time or overnight that I didn’t trust and know their values well.

Plus you can't just live your life according to everyone else's standards all the time. We all parent differently.

Hi OP,
My parents, especially my mum, had the same point of view when I was a kid. I wasn't allowed sleepovers, with the only reason given, "we don't do sleepovers" or "we want to know where you're sleeping at night".

I will say that I was allowed sleepovers at very trusted friends' houses, so it wasn't a blanket no. But I did have to fight hard for the ones that I had!

At the time, I raged at the unfairness of it all. I felt so desperately left out and I swore that my DC would go on all the sleepovers their hearts desired. And I would host big sleepover birthday parties as well! I was going to be a cool mum! 😂

Fast forward to adulthood and I know why my parents said no and I understand what their concerns were. For what it's worth, I think you're right and I've done the same with my DC, although we do have sleepovers here (with max 2 kids though, I'm not insane!).

Unfortunately, I think you're just going to have to come up with a similar line for your DD. Age appropriate, light and breezy : "Darling, we like to have all our children sleep safely at home. We can talk about having your friends here for a sleepover when you're older." But you'll need to weather being the bad guy for a few years yet.

Best of luck!

How nasty and immature of you. Maybe they were personally, or their family members, subject to SA at a sleepover as a child so their boundaries are higher than yours.

But well done on you, the adult, modelling to your son that he should punish their child for it.

I am a criminal lawyer today, and this is an utterly naive take.

People come before the courts for abusing children they had contact with because of a sleepover very, very consistently. And under reporting is massive. It's the tip of the iceberg.

I haven’t caught up with the whole thread but, without belittling the very serious concerns and experiences of those who have suffered SA, I just don’t believe that denying your kids the chance to go to sleepovers is the answer to this.

Like all women, I know a lot of victims of SA and have even experienced it in a milder way myself. It comes most often, as we all know, from within the home, or from a partner, or it may also come from teachers, authority figures, or when we’re older from people at parties, on public transport, in bars and nightclubs, at work.

To pick just this one small element of your child’s life because you feel it’s somewhere you can exert control and saying your child can’t do it… however miserable it makes them and whatever the social cost. It isn’t logical thinking.

if I prevented my child from ever getting in a car, I could 100% guarantee they wouldn’t die in a car accident. But what would they miss out on in the meantime? So so much.

All of life is a balance of risk and benefit. Preventing your child from attending sleepovers doesn’t sadly protect them from SA, it just protects them from it in this one context of many many contexts. You may feel that’s worth it, but I don’t think if you looked at the statistics (ie how many children are sexually assaulted at sleepovers as a proportion of all children who attend them every single weekend), it would seem like a sane choice.

I was a criminal defence solicitor too. I dealt with many SA cases in my career. The overwhelming majority were offences committed by parents, then by other family members, and fewer still by men who volunteered to baby sit. I did not once have (nor did any of my close colleagues) a case that related to a child’s sleepover at a friends house.

Also, I don't know why this thread takes it as fact that abuse is "far more likely" to occur at the hands of family. All evidence points to the fact that it's a fairly even split between family and acquaintances or strangers.

Exactly. I could count on less than the fingers on one hand the number of people I would trust to have my children overnight. Even when you think you know someone very well you don’t always.

I mean, a cursory google would demonstrate that your experience goes against statistics alone. It also doesn't change mine.

I also work for the government legal assistance sector which probably accounts for coming into contact with a significantly higher proportion of prosecutions/ defendants at the pre committal stage.

Though we both know in any event the chance of getting a conviction (or even to hearing) for CSA is vanishingly rare and more likely where the abuse is sustained.

Perverts and paedos don't come out until the small hours, right? So daytime activities with friends are fine but nighttime ones are not?

Reading the OP update I wouldn't agree either. If the girls are t overly friendly or hasn't been to the house on a play date.

I have done playdates and sleepovers at mine and it ain't easy. Playdates always take a couple of dates to get the kids to be settled and sleepovers are a new world. And that is me hosting.

It isn't an easy one

Just be honest with her. My parents never let me go to sleepovers and they told me exactly why. I also don't allow my kids to go to sleepovers, and have told them why. I don't get the concept of "sleepover" at all. They're dumb and dangerous, and I don't want to teach my children the habit of sleeping outside of their home, nor that it's normal to impose on other people.

Also, sleepovers are not a norm at all in maaany cultures, including my own. I have Mediterranean, Asian, African, Russian and South American friends who all never grew up with sleepovers, and think they're utterly weird. In fact, people from my culture would think you are a lazy and neglectful parent for handing your children over to strangers.

And no, you don't "miss out" on anything by not going to sleepovers. Other than risking your children being SA'ed.

Wow, some of the comments on here are ridiculous.

I'm sure OP's DD won't be scarred for life and friendless because she didn't go on a sleepover over aged 10 🙄. My 10yo has never had one (it's never come up!) and he has no social issues whatsoever; a popular, outgoing child.

My 12yo has had one sleepover with her best friend, I know the parents independently and trust their values, and friend has also stayed with us.

But I have said no to other friends when it's come up. We don't have a blanket ban, but no I'm not just shipping my children out to anyone that asks.

@Yazzi To clarify, are you saying that abuse occurs more often at a sleepover with non-family members than it does in other environments (for example, at family members’ homes, on a school or other residential trip, etc.)?

I did Google and am confused by the wealth of information.

@Arancia - your children do miss out on something by not going to sleepovers. They miss out on sleepovers. This obviously isn’t the end of the world, but it is something a lot of kids enjoy an awful lot, and it isn’t ‘dangerous’. There are some dangers in it, like with most things in life but just objectively they are not ‘dangerous’, compared to just plucking a few examples out of my mind quickly: getting in a car, crossing the road, eating sugar, swimming in the sea, going on a fairground ride, eating grapes, petting a dog. All of these things carry some level of risk but are also accepted as part of normal life and people partake in them knowing the small risk of danger. That’s what life is.

Really? I've let DD attend sleepovers. I've also picked her up early (10pm) so she can enjoy being with friends but then get a decent night's sleep. No one has ever teased her for being a baby, and we've never seen any other child teased. Some children don't like sleeping away from home, some parents don't want their children to sleep away from home and I've never witnessed any negativity or awkwardness around it.