Well I've just lost my daughter due to the Supreme Court ruling. s

[Lucelady]

So as not to drip feed she's a Ftm trans person and a universty student.
I've just been called a TERF, JKR supporter and transphobic. We've had four years of peace and understanding with her not wanting any surgery or hormones. She listened to the ruling last week and we chatted it through. The last few days she's been glued to the Internet and her phone. Now it's all changed and her 'friends' have called for action. What that action is I've no idea.
She's stormed out.

Regardless of trans, gender, they, them, gay, pan sexuality…
I think the internet, social media, smart phones are the problem.

Young people, children are no longer free to think for themselves.
Maybe I’m just an old person, and it’s a whole new world, probably!

in many cases, I imagine their parents also * simply have too much time sitting on their asses on their phone.* so hardly the best motivating force

Yes, well said! Agree +++
Team sports, youth drama clubs, team effort re performances etc,

And if you start fairly young, by the time they’re teens… they are very much involved, made friends and it occupies them lots of the weekends.

I imagine a lot of the teens that have been sucked down into this quagmire of silliness simply had too much time to twiddle their thumbs

I have made a similar point before.

Just for clarification, if the definition used is,

"Someone whose gender identity isn't the same as the sex that they are identified with at birth."

Then by the logic of the trans lobby, those of us that do not identify with a gender identity must be trans.

Taking this to the next level
However. As I do not believe in the gender identity theory, I cannot be be trans.

It is the same type of thinking as
If you are not a catholic you must be a Christian.

But this is an example of why clear and unambiguous definitions are required.

Someone whose gender identity isn't the same as the sex that they are identified with at birth."

This never makes sense to me either. Is "woman" as a gender the same as 'female' as a sex? We are told that it isn't, so what genders ARE the same as female?

A long time ago someone on here said it's like trying to say that Left and Right are the same as West and East then wondering why no-one's Left / West give you the right directions.

@Thegreyhound what do you think?
I'm interested in hearing honest viewpoints.

Sometimes team sports or any sport is not suitable for disabled people.
My DD is disabled and although she watched sport throughout her adolescene it wasn't something she did.
As for phones she has advanced computer knowledge and builds them!
She studied film and that's her hobby along with art. She has many friends including international ones due to her previous school.

Gender and sex always used to mean the same thing, gender was just a more polite way of saying the naughty word sex.

In many places gender still does mean sex, Gender reveal parties for one.

Its only because of the trans lobby changing the meaning of words, with no coherent definition that they have got away with such BS.

But even what they are has changed from Transexual to transgender.

I honestly don’t know- I guess it would depend on whether they defined themself in that way?

@FrippEnos transperson is a much easier discription in my opinion.
As we've seen on this thread trans people present in many different ways. Some go the whole hog, many don't.
I think unless the person referred to directly effects me I wouldn't be interested in what they wore, pronouns and their personal business. It would just be a case of, 'hello your name is?' and that's it.

So I have a suggestion for a banner:

We need to pee
Don't you see?
Help us get a third space for me

Simple, polite and unthreatening.

A very cute banner, but isn’t it just saying what the new rules are saying?

Yep. But without the threats of violence.

I doubt anyone will pick it up but as I said at the beginning new builds have third spaces. It larger shops that need to adapt. Most small shops have unisex.

But we all have the same definition, don't we? How would such a person be able to ascertain if they were trans or not, and consequentially whether they should have an input on trans policies etc?

Some authorities say if you reject gender identity, you're agender and fall "under the trans umbrella". I would assume therefore that includes many people on this board.

I don't agree for example that star signs have any bearing on anything, but I can still truthfully describe myself as a Pisces. I wouldn't say that's "defining myself in that way" - it's one description and one that I don't think affects my life, but it's a correct descriptor.

Astrology isn’t a science anymore than gender identity is, it’s only a correct descriptor if you believe in something that has no basis in fact. Beliefs shouldn’t be taken into account when determining the law or the safety of 51% of the population.

GI should no more be considered a protected characteristic than you being a ‘Piscean’, it’s madness.

She’s have loved stagecoach I imagine

my daughter has been going every Saturday for 8 years. It’s wonderful

Astrology isn’t a science anymore than gender identity is
I agree - although I actually think the hypothesis is clearer! The definitions are at least clearly delineated: a Pisces is someone born between certain dates (whereas in GI a woman is a person, male or female, who.... tbc).

If I ask someone what their star sign is and they say "Pisces", they have communicated a piece of information about their birthday. It's up to me and my beliefs as to whether I think that confers any characteristics on them. Whereas someone telling me their gender tells me nothing about them.

At least with astrology there is a defined list of characteristics that "match" a concrete piece of information - birthdate. So you could look up yours and see whether you felt your zodiac characteristics either matched, or didn't match, your birthdate, if you were ever asked to put on a form whether they matched.

With GI, they haven't even got that far. They ask you whether you feel you match your sex but without providing the corresponding list of matching characteristics for each. You're meant to guess at them and hope that everyone else is guessing in the same way!

Nope not a chance. She has a disability that means she can't perform.

I have said I can't confirm what that is incase she gets recognised.

My daughter’s best friend never performed! She did the costumes and sets. My point was… clubs and activities over the weekends when young, keep them up, they make friends and have an interest that is completely separate to anything virtual.

My daughter’s best friend never performed! She did the costumes and sets. My point was… clubs and activities over the weekends when young, keep them up, they make friends and have an interest that is completely separate to anything virtual.

@Morningup my daughter has always had a big group of friends and went to an international boarding school. She was always busy.
She plays two musical instruments, sells her art and watches at least one film a week. She supported her brother through high level sport, she was not a latch key kid. However her phone was always high level because she bought them!
Due to her disability she is not sporty or able to communicate clearly. It doesn't make her neglected. She has a very, very high IQ but she was bullied for it. I've no idea how she got knobbled but she did.