Well I've just lost my daughter due to the Supreme Court ruling. s

[Lucelady]

So as not to drip feed she's a Ftm trans person and a universty student.
I've just been called a TERF, JKR supporter and transphobic. We've had four years of peace and understanding with her not wanting any surgery or hormones. She listened to the ruling last week and we chatted it through. The last few days she's been glued to the Internet and her phone. Now it's all changed and her 'friends' have called for action. What that action is I've no idea.
She's stormed out.

Thanks for such a detailed and level response. I'm so sorry for your experiences, and I hope you have a better relationship with DC now.

My personal experience was that largely that strategy didn't work in our household, but that could have been a parental issue not a child issue; we'll never really know. We all managed to survive pretty much intact, and now have a much better adult relationship.

I think it’s trial and error mostly and no approach works for everyone - my DH had to hold me back a few times and ply me with wine in a effort to facilitate the ‘leave her to calm down’ method - and the goal is to have that close relationship when they are older which it sounds like you managed to achieve?

My bundle of trouble is 20 next week and has just sat and cuddled the dogs half on my lap (cos actually giving me a cuddle directly would be very uncool). She rarely tells me that she loves me unsolicited, but when she goes on the annual ski trip with DH and my DS, there is, I’m told, at least one night of drunkenness and a TedTalk on how much she loves her mum. I’ll take that! LOL

You don't HAVE to do anything. I personally don't have a problem being kind. If someone's name is Victoria and they prefer Vicky I call them Vicky, if they don't like short versions I'd call them Victoria. It's not dissimilar. It's not difficult.

You could call someone biologically female "he" and think its stupid, its not about what you think its about how you behave.

But my response isn't about you, or this "we" you mention, it isn't about wider gender identity opinions or preferences. It's simply this person's child is upset and I think they may have to consider being supportive instead of "right"

I will tell you something, the palpable relief from both men and women on other social media platforms about this has been something else.

In my case, the algorithm is of course going to show me more of what I like - but it's interesting that my interest in trans stuff has up until the ruling, rarely showed me any stuff that wasn't completely pro-trans. Now, so many women, and not a few men, have come out and basically said, this is what you get for trying to claim womanhood and women's spaces for your own. And the comments reflect that, overwhelmingly also.

It's like people now feel like they can actually be truthful.

So I'm sorry, but I don't agree, the general public ARE glad that women have been affirmed as adult human females.

That was not your point at all, don't lie. You came on to admonish an anonymous person for describing her daughter, on a forum, anonymously, as "she". If it was about her being upset and OP supporting her, you would have said that. But you didn't.
And the "we" I refer to is any woman that's been forced to use incorrect pronouns to avoid threats of death, rape, job loss etc. Which isn't kind, but then that never seems to matter under these circumstances does it?

I do think she should describe her child in male terms, she's said for 8 years her kid said they were FTM. She said her child is upset and she feels like she's losing them. And I think if for 8years she's insisted she's right and used the terms daughter she and her, the consequence might be losing her kid, who is now 21. So I absolutely think she might have to choose between being "right" and having that connection.

I specifically said I'm saying this not as part of any wider gender thing but just that your kid is hurting and said what they need. So support them. Or risk losing them. I'm sure that's not what she wants to hear but I do think its what OP risks happening.

You don't agree and that's fine, maybe offer OP your opinion, as she asked for opinions. I dont need anymore of yours, I wasn't asking, (just answering OPs request) and it's clear our opinions differ. So let's just agree we won't agree.

I'd find it interesting to know what the statistics and sources are for women forced to use specific pronouns under threat of "death, rape, jobless etc". Because i honestly don't believe many women are threatened with those things if they don't say a particular pronoun.

Now you're being deliberately obtuse. I am referring - as you well know - to the fact that you admonished the OP for referring to her child as she on an anonymous forum. How is she less kind to refer to her child as she when her child doesn't know about it?

And please, clearly you spend some time regarding this stuff as otherwise you wouldn't be telling OP off. Maybe now have a look at the insults slung across Twitter etc. Here's a couple to start you off: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48142120. Alas I don't have the time or will to search out any that specify pronouns, but I'm sure you can find some.

And this image:

Oh no? This person identifies as disabled and even uses a wheelchair although they can walk (and identifies as trans), and there are articles lauding them. https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/23101806.issue-day-able-bodied-norwegian-identifies-disabled-woman/

Thank you for the thoughts on pronouns.
I have never used he and I've told my daughter why, sex.

As I've always said on this forum and in real life I use she for my daughter because he wouldn't work with her physical representation. She's very feminine even when she trys not to be!
What I won't do is be bullied into an untruth that makes both of us look blinking daft. This is her belief not mine.

What she does at college and with her friends is up to her but I can absolutely tell whose company she's been in.
She had the choice of a flat last year and she said she'd rather stay at home. Not the decision of a mother hater. She's got years of study left so it doesn't make a lot of difference to us. I would never ask her to leave. All her friends are welcome in our home.

I had hoped she would come out the other side of this but her current university is very pro trans. She did have the option of going into the police but that year they were apparently too pro trans!

I'll never stop advocating for her and protecting her best interests but it's hard. The exhausted side wants to say do what you want but I can't encourage or ignore the reality of surgerical interventions. I know my child and when something goes wrong it's always my fault. I'm not taking legal responsibility for her mutilation (strong word I know but coming from a family of breast cancer patients, that's how it feels to me). My cousin was only 26 when she died.

I bite my tongue daily and have lost many friends, either because they think it's catching (when she was younger) or she and I are raving nutters and best avoided.
We live in the south in a heritage town and even LGB people get a hard time.

She had the choice of a flat last year and she said she'd rather stay at home. Not the decision of a mother hater.

and financially savvy!

She did have the option of going into the police but that year they were apparently too pro trans!

this is farcical

Not farcical, a confused young person with a very loving and supportive mum

In a&e depts when details are being taken from pts well enough to supply tthese triage nurses trying to make sense of any gender confusion simply ask: 'What bits were you born with?' They seem to get a straightforward answer and move on.

This is half the problem

there is so much pussy footing around these young people

It is farcical. That is not an abusive or offensive term. It is farcical that the DD chose not to join the police because it was “too trans”

@Curioushoney that year it was a big trans drive and she could have got her first degree paid for. My mother was a copper so it was a natural consideration. However they were looking for a show pony and because of her disability that wasn't going to happen.

I’m not clear
so she did or did not have the opportunity to join the police but what stopped her applying was that it was “too trans”

@Curioushoney yes you are correct.
They just kept going on re the trans visabity. Mind you it was a few years ago.

She doesn't like a spot light.

I would have thought this would very much appeal to your daughter the fact that pro trans and encouraging

A decent parent protects their child. Surgery is irreversible - it’s 100 per cent correct to set some boundaries. She seems quite uncertain about all of this. Maybe she feels some things in common with trans friends but even so, she is not too sure about it. To want to transition you must be certain - there is no going back. Mum is quite right to not affirm too much - this is her daughter and she wants to save her from a rash and permanent decision.

My DD was very much in with the trans lot at school and had her trans phase. When she was looking for unis I suggested a very pro-trans one and took her to look round. I thought she would fit in. She was very against it - as it was too trans! Her words. Soon after that the trans phase was over and she had her first boyfriend.

We really do need to protect our kids from this madness - in the kindest way possible.

Your daughter sounds very like a trans person in my son's uni.

Born female, wears female clothes, low cut tops, make up, dates boys, doesn't even try to appear male. Yet wants to be known at Tom. Cries at pms time and expects total sympathy and support from everyone. And HAS to have male pronouns.

"Fgs, just try and put an effort in mate, if you expect us to " is his and his fellow uni friends thoughts. Can't say I blame them

Seems to me from what I observe, even the younger generations are fed up with these pseudo trans people

It's not "pseudo" trans.
Wanting to be the opposite sex is one way of being trans.

Believing that being a man or woman is about gender - some indefinable facet of who you are as a person, your inner self, your soul - and not the sexed body, is another way of being trans.

They wouldn't try and appear male, because to them, being male or female physically is irrelevant to gender.

This is the narrative that has been pushed in the last 10 years or so and part of what has prompted feminist pushback (because trying to define women as a personality type is wrong). It's all tied up with self-id - I am what I say I am, regardless of what I look like.

You can acknowledge that it's nonsensical, unworkable in practice and relies on sexist stereotypes to exist, but it's what "transgender" now includes.

Well I know that's not my daughter (I did wonder! ). No make up or low tops but she does look naturally like a well known pop star.

What is her social life like? Exercise? Hobbies?

What’s your relationships like with friends? Good long standing and a diverse range of friends

or is life mainly on her phone?

It sounds like if nothing else op, you need to sit down with your daughter and understand what the heck she “is” before engaging in any discussion about the issue itself