Tips for dining with very quiet people

[nomorequinoa]

I volunteer with a gardening group that helps tend a local park and have made friends with a couple of people there. Some of those involved are very quiet types. I've been helping out since last summer and there are several people who've avoided eye contact or just nodded and then ignored me or turned away when I've said hello or tried to start a conversation.

The group has occasional social events and there is a group dinner in a pub organised next week. I booked a place. I've just been sent the table plan (the woman who organises these get-togethers always does a table plan that we're expected to stick to, apparently) and I'm positioned between one person who has never said a word to me and one who has barely said hello. Opposite me is someone with hearing difficulties who doesn't communicate easily.

One of the friends I've made through the group has said that once the meal is over we're allowed to move and I'm to head up to her end of the table. I get the feeling that people are expected to take it in turns to sit with the quiet people.

I'm not a particularly garrulous sort of person, but I was raised to make polite conversation. I'm beginning to get nervous about the event. Do I try to start up a conversation or would that be intrusive?

That’s not in the least unreasonable. You’re not the icebreaker.

What do quiet/ shy/ introverted people get from going out to dinner with other people and sitting there silently, not participating? Do they persuade themselves that by going out with other people they have friends and a social life? I find it vaguely abusive. I did hear Emma Barnett talking on this subject and I agree with her that so much of the heavy lifting, socially, is left to women to do. I've done a lot of it in my life and I've had enough. I'm going to contact the group organiser shortly and request that the table plan is ditched or that I am moved.

No one has actually said as much, but I infer that the table plan exists because there are clearly two, possibly more, people who don't get on and it's been necessary to have a table plan in order to ensure they are seated well away from each other.

I think you should just concentrate on eating, I doubt they will want to chat at all to be honest. There will probably be background noise so it won’t be awkward.

I think you have a Case to ask for one person to be seated next to you or opposite you who is chatty. Push for that and see what they say.

Good to see different perspectives here. I’ve often been seated next to the quiet people because I’m chatty and seen as kind. At a recent work dinner I really worked hard to engage everyone in conversation on my quiet table while the fun table had great chat and decent networking. I just felt exhausted and left earlyish. I’m avoiding these sorts of things in future in favour of something where you get to move about a bit. I think that’s why some people just join for a drink before or afterwards, it also saves money.

Reframe this to "unable to".

How is it unfair of my child to go out with a group they have found great joy in belonging to? Unfair to inflict their presence on others? My child doesn't expect everyone to talk with them, given they can't often reciprocate, though it's nice when people do.

I don't expect everyone to understand and interact with a very quiet person. I do expect on their behalf that people don't resent them being allowed to attend events.

I volunteered in the walled garden of a stately home for several years. We became part of the social prescribing system where people with depression are encouraged to be part of things, often in the fresh air, to help with their recovery. We had a man who attended but wanted to work without chat and to have his tea break away from the rest of us ( we were in the group room, he sat on a chair outside in the courtyard). That's all fine. I have no problem with not chatting whilst I'm potting up a million seedlings. As long as I can rejoin chatty people on a different job afterwards then I'm happy to go along with that. I'm absolutely not paying for an evening out in a social situation if someone like that comes along ( tbh hopefully he wouldn't have) and I'm expected to eat my food in silence in order that he can cope. That's absolutely not acceptable.

@nomorequinoa
"Do they persuade themselves that by going out with other people they have friends and a social life? I find it vaguely abusive"

OP, please do ask to be moved. This is a really cruel and nasty thing to say. You are absolutely not the right person to sit with quiet introverted people. I dread the thought of my kind, gentle completely harmless autistic kid being put next to someone like you, whose mind could even venture near to assuming they are abusive because they have the temerity to exist in a way you find vaguely uncomfortable and attend a social event whilst being disabled by selective mutism and autism.

If the event is a standing up and mingling event then that's fine. I can say hello to your child, pass some pleasantries, that don't painfully die in the air if there is no response, and then move on to someone else. It is absolutely not fair to me to expect that I sit in silence, whilst I eat a meal I am paying for, because your child is unable to speak but has decided to attend because it brings them joy. Joy is a two way thing

I think much of the problem with these situations is the organisers insisting on lumping all the "quiet people" together as though they're some sort of homogenous lump. Some people who are on the quieter side are much more comfortable in social settings when they have people to converse with who are good at leading a conversation. It shouldn't be the job of those people to sit with lots of quiet people and be the only ones to make an effort etc, but if you are a little shy it can be very difficult trying to strike up a conversation with someone you don't know who won't converse back. But I say that from the perspective of a shy person who makes a real effort in social settings.

There is a tension here. The silent (for whatever reason) person (and their mother) would want op to expend energy in facilitating a social situation for that person.

The op (who has no obligation to these people) wants an enjoyable evening for herself. it’s the classic “women be kind” set up.

I bet she's one of those people who has a special laugh for this sort of occasion, to show the entire table just how fun she is all the time.

Who said you had to sit in silence?
The mistake is in the seating plan. Why put one person who likes talking in a group surrounded by very very quiet people?

My DC would be fine at the end of the table or being talked across, just being accepted as part of the group.

They wouldn't be fine being confronted about why they aren't talking or surrounded by people who think their presence is abusive or that they shouldn't have been allowed to come at all.

Same, sounds like a right bunch of laughs!

I think some very very quiet people just want to be around the buzz of conversation or even have someone else work very hard to draw them out. I’ve been for a coffee with a woman and God help me on a date with a man like this, both very very challenging for me to keep up a conversation for an hour. Both times I assumed the other person had had a horrible time as they’d been so terse, both times I got enthusiastic messages about what a lovely time we’d had and let’s do it again (no).

No - I assume I am the mother.
I don't want anyone to expend energy facilitating a social situation. I don't expect anyone to converse with my kid (who is an adult) if they don't want to . I don't expect people to go out of their way to make DC comfortable at any event. I just expect them not to think DC is nasty, unpleasant or abusive because they struggle to speak, or think they should not be allowed to attend events whilst being quiet. I expect people not to confront my DC about their quietness or assume malign intent on DC's part. And I expect that equally from men or women tbh.

The Op said that the seating plan puts her with people who do not speak. Are you presuming that she will talk into the void all evening, despite there being no response from either neighbour. She has explained that there is no one at that end of the table that she can speak to whilst the silent ones remain silent . In my case, if someone who volunteers on the basis of silence, attends the social evening, and I am put by that person, then that previously silent person isn't going to become a completely different person. Therefore I will be sitting in silence. Fuck that.

I think I would text on the day to apologise that something's come up so you'll be late arriving. Arrive once the meal has begun and just plonk yourself down next to your friend. If challenged, breezily say, "Oh I'm fine here thanks" and crack on. A table plan for a casual hobby group dinner is way too stressful.

It's not abusive to have to sit by a couple of autistic people and one who is deaf.

Fucks' sake.

I don’t think anyone has said they though have they?

The unfairness is queen bee putting op on a whole table of non speakers. I would get there early and plonk myself down in her allotted seat.

Also been on dates with silent men. Dear god. Then they say afterwards they’ve had a marvellous time. Yes I bet you have I’ve basically been a one woman Katherine Ryan stand up all evening while you just sat there!

What do quiet/ shy/ introverted people get from going out to dinner with other people and sitting there silently, not participating? Do they persuade themselves that by going out with other people they have friends and a social life? I find it vaguely abusive.

This is vile OP. You don't sound like a very nice person.

They don't think your child is nasty or abusive or anything like that. They just want a pleasant, uplifting social evening . Being the one who is put by the silent person for hours isn't fun. We all have stuff going on. If you've had a stressful day in your own life the last thing you want is an evening with someone who just sits there.

I think actually we all agree - a mixture of chatty and quiet people together is fine. Ask the organiser to alter or scrap the table plan on the grounds that there’ll be no conversation at your end of the table and that’ll be unfair on you and the quiet people.

@Ciaroscuro I have an autistic family member who has developed actually really good social skills by being involved in groups from teens/early twenties on. It’s been a slog at times but they’re doing great socially now, I hope it works out that way for your child x

I agree with this ^

Ask them a few questions but don’t expect a conversation.
I think they have autism and that’s the reason for having a seating plan - because who on earth does a seating plan for a hobby group? The only reason is that it’s a reasonable adjustment for someone due to their additional needs.

No, I am presuming the organiser needs speaking with. The seating plan is the fault of the organiser, not the quiet people. Why blame the quiet people?