why the effing jeffing is there a Surrogacy board on Mumsnet???

[nevertuesday]

I have been on MN for 15 years or so and only just realised via a post in Active Threads, that there is a Surrogacy board on Mumsnet??

I only read a couple of the discussions there, along the lines of can I buy my baby abroad? has anyone else had a baby via Surrogacy?? so, looks to be a chat board to SUPPORT people try to remove babies from their mothers using cash.

huh?? on Mumsnet?

Many reasonable, decent humans do not have an issue with it. And that's fine.
People are entitled to different views to you

Many people who want to adopt are not approved as adopters, of those that are, they may not be matched with a child. Some may go on and have a match but its not right or doesnt follow through or breaks down.

The focus is about the childs needs. Most adopters adopt because they want a family or to complete their family but the focus is on the child, adopters are picked and chosen, dropped, interviewed to see if the match would be right, have to go to panel, there are transitions and reviews etc etc. They are being tested all the way and the childs needs are at the centre of it.

I don’t understand what you mean I can’t be against surrogacy unless I’m against surrogacy? And I actually said up thread I am not anti-surrogacy as a whole. But many aspects I am against.

What I am against is you telling it’s the same as adoption.

Of course adoption is for the child. But so is surrogacy. That child IS wanted, loved, cherished, valued.

@soupyspoon People use surrogates to 'complete their family' too. It's no different to adopting.

You don't adopt a child unless you want to love and raise a child. You dont go down the surrogacy route unless you want to love and raise a child. The same values.

Exactly. I find it utterly bizarre that some people are SO against surrogacy, but are OK with adoption. Makes no sense. It's still a child being taken from its natural mother/birth mother.

Some people are just not having it though. It's like banging your head against a brick wall!

Well you could say that about any birth! Children dont need to be created to be safe.

I mean I have issues with the concept of surrogacy but I think it’s a perfectly acceptable topic for a parenting website? You’re being weird.

Post the advent of IVF surrogacy originally evolved through mothers offering to carry for what was usually a female relative. Just like altruistic organ donation however it didn’t stay like that and soon enough money and just wanting things got involved. Anybody seen the videos of the two gay men paying two surrogates to carry two babies simultaneously for them? They will remove both and have their ideal family. They are going this in Mexico because….its cheaper. So far only one surrogate is pregnant. If you haven’t seen their videos go looking, if that doesn’t convince you surrogacy is now exploitative nothing will

The aim is different and the outcome is different.

Im not anti all surrogacy as I have pointed out. I dont agree that someone is entitled to have a child just because they want one and if a child doesnt already exist, Im not comfortable with a 3rd party female body being used to create one.

I don’t agree, the motivations are not the same. You want a surrogate child because you want YOUR child and you’re willing to use someone else, even if they’re willing, to get that. You want an adopted child because you want to care for a child and give it a home and you’re willing to jump through a. Million hoops to provide that.

As I have said twice, yes they’re both wants but the motivation is entirely different. Especially in the modern world of adoption.
and again - I’m not anti-surrogacy in theory but there are a lot of issues with it.

Wow, a human trafficking board. Disgusting.

Oh come on, surely you can see there is a world
of difference!!

Adoption - best decision made for a child who already exists.

surrogacy - decision made to create a child for the sole benefit of the intended parents.

@SkipthisbitI understand the sister feeling sorry for her own sister but may be if surrogacy wasn’t legal she would’ve not felt pressured to ‘help’?

And with the other example - well this mum is risking her own health (and even life), and I don’t think that is responsible parenting to her own children. Let alone all the psychological effects that this will have on everybody - herself, the babies she carried and she will keep meeting, or her own children who likely felt some connection to their mum’s bump/s. That woman may need help to resolve some complex issues there for herself.

Sorry, but I just didn’t find your scenarios convincing as benevolent examples to justify surrogacy. If anything, just another, more subtle and less obvious way, of exploiting women and taking advantage of their caring nature.

I think if you're absolutely fine with a baby being torn away from its mother at birth for no reason other than because the purchasers wanted to buy a baby, then you aren't a decent person.

The needs of the baby should come first, always. So why is it in a surrogacy arrangement the baby's needs are always the least important?

Hide the board if it offends you so much.

Erm the three people who decided to go down the route of surrogacy have decided that not me.

Have studies been done on humans to compare a baby being brought up by the person who carried he/she, or a baby brought up by his/her biological mother and father who love and care for him/her??

I'm OK with adoption, so I'm OK with surrogacy. They're the same.

One child exists already. One doesn’t.

Wow. No time to read other people’s responses but your ignorance on the topic shines bright. Not all surrogacy is ‘traditional’ whereby it’s using the surrogates eggs. There is gestational surrogacy where the baby has no genetic relationship whatsoever to the surrogate. Yes there body nurtures and grows and births the baby. In the UK surrogacy isn’t a paid service… can only reimburse for expenses. For many it’s the only way to have their child whether biological or not. Are you aware that people who are having cancer treatment often have IVF for fertility preservation? And if the treatment requires hysterectomy would then need gestational surrogacy to have their baby?

There is a lot you need to educate yourself on about the subject before sweepingly saying it’s removing babies from mothers

You may want to read over what you just wrote.

Lots of us have explained why surrogacy and adoption are completely different. Do you fancy explaining to us how they are the same? Or are you just going to keep insisting that's the case without providing any reasoned argument?

A shame the same cant happen for "normal" pregnancies then! Would stop so many unfit men and women from being becoming parents.

No, because I do think the human race should continue. Although I am against people having children without putting the child's needs first. I don't believe there are many circumstances where surrogacy is about prioritising the child's needs. A potential exception is where a friend or relative offers surrogacy. Anything where money changes hands - I think it is likely to be hurtful to the child.

I don't know enough about surrogacy to be vehemently against it. I just see so many risks and very few rewards.

I dont disagree with that however society wouldnt tolerate it.

But if you feel that for 'normal' pregnancies then surely you feel that surrogate parents should be vetted too?