Struggling with DS's (18) choices - long one - sorry

[Maplewood6]

I know that I have so much to be grateful for in my DS (18). He is very happy and very popular. His life choices though are bringing me down which I know is related to my past. I had a tough upbring –parents in menial jobs where money was a major source of angst between my parents (e.g. my mum had to get solicitors involved to get housekeeping money from my dad) and my home life was emotionally and physically abusive. Every day was filled with anxiety about when/if something was going to kick off. While all this was going on, I vowed that when I had control of my life it would be entirely different to what I was going through. Luckily (or maybe because of my home life), I loved school – it was civilised and predictable unlike home and I loved learning. I was the only one in my family to go to uni, got a first at a top uni and a well paid job. I had my son on my own (100% OK with that), and he’s never gone without. He’s seen me working my socks off and with some people that instils in them a good work ethic. As I mentioned above, he’s always been popular. On leaving primary school, he got into a top secondary school (he was tutored for that but they said he was bright) and I expected everything to be plain sailing but it hasn’t. After a few years at the school, I realised that it had quite a progressive mindset (absolutely nothing about this in the open evenings/school literature) such that he was allowed to get away with not handing work in. Unlike me, he’s doesn’t have a love of learning so was quite happy with this hands off approach but it meant that he fell behind in his work, became unpopular with the teachers, then he disliked school, was even less inclined to do work etc – a vicious cycle being established. He was also unbelievably disorganised generally. GCSEs was a torturous process – it was as if he’d never been to school at all and after his GCSEs he was diagnosed with ADD (by a psychiatrist). Whilst he was going downhill at school, he got into train spotting, which became consuming and he became part of that community. It’s a full on passion which, if you’re not into trains (me), is hard to understand. Fast forward to the current day, he’s now a few months off doing A levels and massively behind as before – although not as bad as the GCSEs. He’s still a passionate train spotter spending as much time as possible doing that – literally loads of time [he definitely doesn’t have autism BTW).What I’m finding difficult is that every single one of my friends/family have children who are heading off to university and are growing up in their approach to life i.e. are looking forward to moving away from home, living independently, having their lives open up.In contrast, my DS can’t wait to leave school and has his sights set on working on the railways – that is in a mundane, undemanding job (that will allow him to see trains) and says that he’s never leaving home. It’s as if his friends lives are going to keep developing – meeting new friends etc – whereas my son’s life will be stagnating. His new friends (work colleagues) will be a bunch of mainly middle aged men. He’s a truly lovely boy (happy, affectionate) but I feel quite bereft inside.When out for lunch with a friend recently who was telling me how her son was thriving at uni both academically and in life generally (living in a house share), and how this was an important life phase, I found myself blurting out, “Oh my God, this is making me so sad” and I felt quite tearful. I’ve just spent the day yesterday with two other people and again felt really down afterwards on hearing about their children’s plans for the future – travel, uni, aspiration.One of these has a son who also has ADHD and on getting the right medication, has been transformed and almost instantly grown up. My son says his medication doesn’t work and has no interest in addressing his ADHD i.e. it took him a year to tell me that the medication he was on was not actually having any effect and he has no interest in looking at strategies that my help him life more adaptively with his ADHD symptoms. It’s like myself and my friends were all good parents but it’s paying off for them in the way their children are developing; whereas for me it hasn’t. I just feel like my escape from my childhood has been for nothing and that my son is taking himself right back there (which kills me) – a mundane job (that allows him to see trains) with low pay, and all the struggles I know that will bring as he’s used to the sort of life I’ve given him. I think the bottom line is that I’m an aspirational person so seeing a complete lack of that in my nearest and dearest is a real struggle for me. I’m not really sure why I’m posting – I suppose it’s just to have an offload. If anyone has any insights though I’m open to them.

A friend of mine went to uni etc and did 20 years in a white collar job before achieving his ultimate goal of becoming a train driver. He's happier than almost everyone I know. His 20 years were working for a train company, getting to learn as much about trains as he could so as to get onto train driver training. Totally living his best life and train drivers are extremely well paid.

We have a ND young person who is bright but doesn't have the capacity to engage with school, and it's very frightening. But your son following his interests is probably the best thing he can do. It's like when kids are EBSA and demand avoidant and they need to work with a tutor who makes everything about their special interest as the only way to engage them. Your son is doing that all on his own - stacking the pack so he can be a brilliant employee and be really successful at work.

I think your son sounds fucking cool!!! I wish I'd had my head screwed on so well at 18.

The only issue here is that he said he isn't ever moving out - but that will likely change as he gets older, meets someone or has some money from his job. It seems pretty standard now for kids to go to university, get micky mouse degrees, get pissed most nights and come out with extremely high debts. Many then come out with no idea what they actually want to do, no job experience in the field they want to work in if they do know and have that debt looming over them for a very long time. Whilst you may think the job he plans to get is mundane it sounds like he will love it - even if it is for the time being. Chances are there will be an opportunity to progress or other roles linked with the railway that he can go into. Try not to look at it negatively, look at it that he has already found what he wants to do. University isn't for everyone especially if he struggled with gcses and a levels and sometimes in life doing what you love is worth far more than a fat bank account.

What’s the mundane job in the railway that he wants? These are very sort after and competitive jobs … he will need to work hard to work on the rail as safety is number 1 priority if he’s working with train and they are not just given to anyone … even the cleaner. There can be some very rewarding and extremely well paid jobs in that industry especially if he understands the more technical side. You can come out with a very good pension.

He's still young, and probably frightened of the future, so he's choosing familiarity (trains and home). I think you just have to wait it out, and hope that he will develop more motivation in a few years (with some gentle nudges from you). My older DS hated sixth form and didn't want to go to uni, In the absence of other plans I 'persuaded' him to apply on the grounds that he didn't have to actually take up the place but it would be there if he changed his mind - he did over the summer, and thrived. I am not suggesting that as a course of action for everyone, just an example of a teen changing their mind as they grow up and mature. I think a lot of boys are later developers.

I totally get what you are saying - people write on here 'Stop putting your wishes and aspirations onto him. It's his life.' Basically, they are advising you to abandon him to make bad choices in life. I wrote previously on here, got flamed, that in front of my eyes I have two examples, where two boys with the same mental capabilities yet different parental approaches produced vastly different outcomes - one is a kitchen porter with no economic future, no ambition and soon, hernias and the other is a interventionalist radiologist on an obscene salary with a fabulous lifestyle and under-utilised on the NHS. We have a duty to push our children, if we push and fail, then be it, but we have a duty not to allow them to choose a path that leads to a dead end. They have no foresight, no life experience, we do. There are plenty of great degrees that can lead him to work and progress in the railways industry - you have to find what he likes - not him, he won't. But you know him, you can find what he likes and guide him into that degree.

He sounds like a lovely lad. If he loves trains, I am sure there must be some great opportunities there including further training and education. University is not the only route.

My son followed a similar pathway.

He’s now 28, has lots of money saved from various physical jobs, which eventually bored him, and he’s doing well at a good university.

Sometimes they have to learn life’s lessons themselves.

How great that he has a passion and a fixed idea of the sort of thing he wants to do! So many youngsters go off to university with no clear idea what they want to do and then end up, despite doing well, working in a low paid job for years anyway. He’ll probably enter the working world next year and have three/four years earning on his mates and able to work his way up the ladder quickly. I don’t know much about railway careers myself but as others have said here, train driving pays well.
And he is still young. I lived at home till I was 24. You can set boundaries around that eg he needs to have a job and be contributing to the household but there is no need to push him out the door.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but he isn’t here for you to live your life vicariously through or to do things that you think he should be doing. Focus on being supportive and on doing what you want to be doing with your own life.
There are more things to value in someone than academic achievement such as kindness, friendship and commitment.

I don’t have any advice OP but I just want to say you’re definitely not alone.

All the thoughts/timeline I had envisioned for my DD haven’t happened so far - she keeps moving the goalposts. I try to be understanding as I still remember how difficult it is to be young and make plans for your future, but it’s just worn me down, probably because I was nothing like that and couldn’t wait to have the tools to be more independent.

My DD is now finally in uni (at 20) but it was only because I said either uni or a full-time job and paying her half of the bills. She hates it and resents being enrolled and is “looking for a part-time” since last September now. It’s also a degree that feels like a waste because she had really good grades and instead chose some obscure uni fully online.

My counsellor said that the reason I feel so affected by this is because I had given myself this timeline - ie “I can cope until so and so happens” - and it never happened, so now I have to readjust every expectation I had for my own future too.

I can see your point, but I think you need to reframe your thinking regarding university. Like you, I was the first in my family to go to university. My parents were very supportive and encouraged me to study, but their jobs were low paid and money was tight when I was growing up. I wanted to do better.

I’m now in a professional career that took years to qualify for and my earnings are decent but not great. I also have my student loan to repay. There are lots of jobs and career paths that don’t require a university degree to be successful. Also, I think 18 is very young to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life. Your son might start working and in a few years figure out he needs a degree in x subject to advance. Or he might do very well without one and save a lot of money on university fees. Especially in today’s economy and with the current fees, going to university for the sake of it is worse than not going at all.

The one thing you need to address is the living at home forever expectation. If he gets a job and is not studying anymore, you should start charging him rent and asking
him to contribute substantially to the running of the home (cooking, cleaning his own room and shared spaces and laundry). Living at home is not a bad thing in itself if he contributes like an adult should and builds his savings. If he does all these things, at some point he might feel ready to move out on his own, or meet someone and want to move in together.

You say that your son doesn't have a love of learning, so it doesn't sound as though university would be right for him.
There is a lot to be said for being happy, and he has something he is interested in and wants to do. If he wants to change path later then he can.
You can't expect your children to grow up with the same traits that you have. My son approaches life quite differently to me - he takes risks that I would never be comfortable with. Also, it sounds as though school was partly an escape for you, and your son hasn't needed that as he is so happy at home, which is great. At 18 he has his whole life ahead of him.

You seem to have a very narrow impression of what Success looks like.
"Success" comes in many forms. It isn't necessarily top sets at school, followed by 9s in GCSEs, A* at A level, a first from a Russell Group and so on (although the Mumsnet bubble would lead you to believe that is the case)

Being a happy and functional adult is a far more desirable trait than being academically successful.

Another thing I may throw out there is that trainspotting communities tend to attract a number of neurodiverse individuals. He has clearly found his tribe, and his calling. That is a blessing, Op.

Your son sounds great.

He has a passion that he wants to turn into a career. Good for him! He's more likely to succeed doing something he loves and is passionate about than some boring mundane degree that he'll barely scrape through, then goes to do a boring mundane office job. But at least you can sit there with all your friends talking about how successful your son is, whilst he drudges through life.

Would you be saying the same if he wanted to be a pilot? Or a doctor? Probably not as those jobs are something that you can brag about to your friends.

Its not your life

You've lived a different life to your son, had tougher experiences which have taken you to where you are today. Your son has grown up in a different family environment and has his own mind and ideas.

Your sons ideals don't aline with your ideas and that is what is where you are facing upset, your mindset needs to change.

Saying out loud my son is not interested in exams, or going to university - instead he has a love of trains and wants to work on the railway - its not a sad or bad thing to say.

You've aspired for your son to continue studying and attend university - its not for everyone regardless of how academic.

Accept your son for who he is

Haven’t read through everything, but with AD(H)D, the brain matures later. An NT brain is mature at about 25, ADHD can be up to 30. So as far as wanting independence is concerned, it may well come a bit later than his peers.

Might be worth doing some financial education with him, though, being open about your or typical outgoings so he can consider what sort of salary he needs to aim for to be comfortable. Everything from rent/mortgage, utilities, council tax, NI contributions and income tax, running a car, weekly food shop and fridge suddenly breaking down and needing replacing.

I often wonder if I‘d go to uni if I were a teenager now. It took me long enough to pay back the student loans from the early noughties. I‘m not convinced it’s worth it for a lot of kids these days. By the sound of it, there’s a lot of scope for progression in the railways for when he‘s ready, and it may well bring him joy.

I understand where you are coming from. We all want our children to benefit from our experience and fly but life is about the journey and not the destination.

I also have adhd. I wasn't diagnosed until my 40's. In school I was always considered bright and but labelled as lacking ambition. I was ambitious but generally bored senseless by most of my subjects. My reports are littered with comments about how if I would only apply myself, etc. quite a few of my teachers actively disliked me because of this. I can understand why now.
The subjects I did well in (English, History) I was obsessed with. I would read widely outside the syllabus and study independently on topics that were not even offered. The rest of the subjects were like dragging my body over broken glass. Nothing would motivate me to get stuck into them.

Unsurprisingly I didn't get the grades needed to do the course my family wanted me to do (law) and rather than pick another subject I went to work at the local council and stayed there for 5 years. It turned out to be a job I loved (in the libraries with ALL the books!!). It was good for me and I grew up a lot in those 5 years.

At 22 I was ready and reapplied to uni as a mature student and did a degree in a subject I actually loved (archeology). It was so hard, keeping up with everything and working at an insurance company call centre at night as well, but I managed it and did really well.

After I graduated I was planning to go on to a post grad degree but was so burnt out by the undergraduate years,
I postponed it for a year and went travelling. When I landed in London I was offered a temp job at an insurer in the City.

I ended up staying in London and now, 25 years later I run the claims team for an insurer, dealing with high value, litigated claims internationally. I am very well paid, professionally recognised and respected and I absolutely love my job. It plays to all of my strengths.

My career and life trajectory has not been a straight line. Nor has it been easy. My undiagnosed ADHD caused significant difficulties and hurdles in work and my personal life which I internalised as moral failings on my part for a long time but in the end I learned to fly, in my own time and in my own way.

None of my choices were ones my family would have made and I know they were devastated when I didn't follow the path they had planned for me but ultimately it was my life and I had to make the choices that were right for me at the time.

The point of all of this is to say that he needs to follow his own path and ultimately he will define his own success. You cannot force a square peg into a round hole or right the wrongs of your own life through his.

If it helps at all, going into the railways may not be the dead end you think it is. If he is bright he will rise. It is an industry that desperately needs fresh faces and new blood so it could be a great opportunity for him to be in the right place at the right time.

If he could find a way to make my commute less of a nightmare then that would be awesome!

A colleague's son cleans trains on the night shift. He earns about £40,000 with shift allowance.

An apprenticeship with the railways would be amazing for him.
Learning new skills, where he is interested. Have similar interests to colleagues.
Bigger and better pathways will open up to him.
Allow him to have this opportunity, and be proud of him.

Honestly OP, he sounds like a lovely lad. There is so much more to life than university and the one DC in our family who chose an apprenticeship over uni (Durham) is earning far more than his siblings and doing something that he really loves.

Everyone has different hobbies, motivations and passions. At 18, I'd just be pleased he had an interest. Please never let him see your disappointment.

Is he an only child op? I suspect he is and theres too much pressure on him to fit the mould you have created. If he had an older sibling at uni, doing everything you expect, your focus would be off your son.
He sounds happy and popular. Let him be.

This 100%. Please don't compare your lovely sounding son to your abusive parents! My DS is also ND (very obviously but not diagonsed as there is no way he will engage with assessments). He's very clever, but does the minimum, academically, that he can get away with. I could spend my time being frustrated, but my aim is to get him through school with his mental health in a good place, and hopefully into a job where he is happy.

Why don't you focus on his A level success? It might be really hard to convince him to make particular choices about the more distant future, and as many posters have said it's not necessarily a good approach to try and nudge him away from his passion.

Tell him that he needs to get the best grades possible, but that he will have a lot more autonomy after finishing school (true whether you like it or not). Explain to him that good grades will get him closer to an apprenticeship or course where he will be able to find a railway job if that's what he wants.

Then give him the support he needs. Point him to resources he needs, help him find a working rhythm. Cut him a little slack on other issues as long as he's revising.

Whether or not the railway enthusiasm is a flash in the pan, good grades will help him a lot towards his next steps. And if he works a couple of years at something that turns out to be boring, and then wants to follow a more ambitious path, not needing to redo A levels will make a huge difference.

I’m from a similar background and didn’t have a great childhood so found academia an escape. Working hard allowed me to prove to myself I wasn’t what people made me feel.

My daughter is only six but I sometimes feel so annoyed that she doesn’t push herself like I did. Or she still wants to sleep in bed with me. Or she lets her room go messy etc. it’s only recently I’ve sat back and thought that a lot of my responses are from trauma and how I was raised. If I even slightly raise my voice, she’s really really upset and I couldn’t work out why as to me that was nothing- I was used to full on screams and sometimes violence. But I’m releasing my daughter has never seen that. To me it’s nothing, to her it’s not often and so upsetting.

It seems like you had to be ambitious to escape your former life while your son has been able to follow his passions because he was raised in a safe environment. While it’s not ideal he says he never wants to leave, I’d take that as a compliment to your bond and how well you’ve raised him.