Struggling with DS's (18) choices - long one - sorry

[Maplewood6]

I know that I have so much to be grateful for in my DS (18). He is very happy and very popular. His life choices though are bringing me down which I know is related to my past. I had a tough upbring –parents in menial jobs where money was a major source of angst between my parents (e.g. my mum had to get solicitors involved to get housekeeping money from my dad) and my home life was emotionally and physically abusive. Every day was filled with anxiety about when/if something was going to kick off. While all this was going on, I vowed that when I had control of my life it would be entirely different to what I was going through. Luckily (or maybe because of my home life), I loved school – it was civilised and predictable unlike home and I loved learning. I was the only one in my family to go to uni, got a first at a top uni and a well paid job. I had my son on my own (100% OK with that), and he’s never gone without. He’s seen me working my socks off and with some people that instils in them a good work ethic. As I mentioned above, he’s always been popular. On leaving primary school, he got into a top secondary school (he was tutored for that but they said he was bright) and I expected everything to be plain sailing but it hasn’t. After a few years at the school, I realised that it had quite a progressive mindset (absolutely nothing about this in the open evenings/school literature) such that he was allowed to get away with not handing work in. Unlike me, he’s doesn’t have a love of learning so was quite happy with this hands off approach but it meant that he fell behind in his work, became unpopular with the teachers, then he disliked school, was even less inclined to do work etc – a vicious cycle being established. He was also unbelievably disorganised generally. GCSEs was a torturous process – it was as if he’d never been to school at all and after his GCSEs he was diagnosed with ADD (by a psychiatrist). Whilst he was going downhill at school, he got into train spotting, which became consuming and he became part of that community. It’s a full on passion which, if you’re not into trains (me), is hard to understand. Fast forward to the current day, he’s now a few months off doing A levels and massively behind as before – although not as bad as the GCSEs. He’s still a passionate train spotter spending as much time as possible doing that – literally loads of time [he definitely doesn’t have autism BTW).What I’m finding difficult is that every single one of my friends/family have children who are heading off to university and are growing up in their approach to life i.e. are looking forward to moving away from home, living independently, having their lives open up.In contrast, my DS can’t wait to leave school and has his sights set on working on the railways – that is in a mundane, undemanding job (that will allow him to see trains) and says that he’s never leaving home. It’s as if his friends lives are going to keep developing – meeting new friends etc – whereas my son’s life will be stagnating. His new friends (work colleagues) will be a bunch of mainly middle aged men. He’s a truly lovely boy (happy, affectionate) but I feel quite bereft inside.When out for lunch with a friend recently who was telling me how her son was thriving at uni both academically and in life generally (living in a house share), and how this was an important life phase, I found myself blurting out, “Oh my God, this is making me so sad” and I felt quite tearful. I’ve just spent the day yesterday with two other people and again felt really down afterwards on hearing about their children’s plans for the future – travel, uni, aspiration.One of these has a son who also has ADHD and on getting the right medication, has been transformed and almost instantly grown up. My son says his medication doesn’t work and has no interest in addressing his ADHD i.e. it took him a year to tell me that the medication he was on was not actually having any effect and he has no interest in looking at strategies that my help him life more adaptively with his ADHD symptoms. It’s like myself and my friends were all good parents but it’s paying off for them in the way their children are developing; whereas for me it hasn’t. I just feel like my escape from my childhood has been for nothing and that my son is taking himself right back there (which kills me) – a mundane job (that allows him to see trains) with low pay, and all the struggles I know that will bring as he’s used to the sort of life I’ve given him. I think the bottom line is that I’m an aspirational person so seeing a complete lack of that in my nearest and dearest is a real struggle for me. I’m not really sure why I’m posting – I suppose it’s just to have an offload. If anyone has any insights though I’m open to them.

Imagine if he ends up bringing chief officer for a railway company or something! Experience in the industry is much more relevant than a degree

@Maplewood6 The only part of your son’s current plans that would concern me is where he says he doesn’t ever want to leave home. But that is something that will
hopefully change as he gets older (unless it turns out that you are both happy with that).

Perhaps have a think about what arrangements you put in place to develop his life skills going forward, so that he is capable of living independently when the time comes. Eg ensuring he can cook and clean, contribute to the bills. Don’t let him continue as if he was a child once he is finished school.

I would say that based on my own experience he would probably struggle more at uni as there is even less scaffolding So getting a job that suits him is not a bad idea. But he needs to learn how much it costs to live independently so he can plan accordingly.

myself and my friends were all good parents but it’s paying off for them in the way their children are developing; whereas for me it hasn’t

I don't know if you're using the term "paying off" in the way I'm reading it but it seems you have certain expectations that your son "owes you" in order to be "paid back" for your good parenting?

The truth is our dcs don't owe us anything and the sooner you are able to let go of expectations the easier it will be to navigate for you.

Also, your ds is so young still.
My ds was similar to yours in that he was very bright academically, earmarked for Oxbridge but chose to prioritise a hobby.

5 years later he is now a mature student at university, not Oxbridge, not an academic subject but he's found a way to further his hobby into a career via a degree, and is so happy.

Perhaps in time your son will study engineering or data analysis or something else, or maybe he won't but it doesn't matter as long as he pursues what makes him feel fulfilled.

This. University is not what it's cracked up to be. He would leave with a huge debt around his neck. Working for the railways will bring him endless opportunities. Who knows who he will meet and where it will take him. You seem to have given up before he has started and you seem to lack encouragement. He sounds very sensible. He has struggled with school so why on earth would he want to go to uni. To me it sounds awful. Encouraging him to follow his passions and path are all part of being a mother. Don't spoil it for him.

I also thought you were going to say your son was spending the day in bed smoking weed or something! Working in the railways sounds great if that’s his passion. If you enjoy your work, that’s a wonderful thing, it’s what I want for my own children. We spend so much of our lives in work, it’s much better to enjoy what we do rather than be miserable for a few extra quid. Railway workers earn good money these days anyway, particularly train drivers. Your fears of him living in relative poverty are completely unjustified and are totally being coloured by you tough upbringing. Let him follow his dreams with your blessing, he’ll do great.

I find it strange when people immediately say 'your son is not academic', meaning their own children are. What is 'academic' anyway, such a strange thing to say - there seems to be so many 'academic people' and at the same time such epic underachievement in later life in both research and scholarship.

Your son may very well be 'academic', by which I mean he might be very interested in spending time studying a subject, you just have to find what that subject is, by probing him. I am not familiar with the railways subject, but there must be ways of doing a degree related to this and then progressing in it in, surely. Ask him, talk to him.

I know a couple of people who are train conductors. One was a young lad we were close to growing up. He has ADD, struggled at school, still lives at home in his 30s, pays rent, but he earns decent money, has a circle of friends, helps his mum. He is happy and his mum as a widower is ok with it.

The other guy is super smart with a degree. He is married, two beautiful kids, lovely home, great set of mates who all go climbing together. He is very happy and has a nice life.

Your son has a passion and a goal. It is a tough market out there even with a degree, plus you end up saddled with debt and may not earn much more. So support your son. He might start and then decide to do an HNC in engineering. My sister is only completing her first degree now in her 40s. He has to choose his own path, and it sounds decent.

As someone who works on the railway I object to you labelling my occupation as "menial".

There's a huge amount of "stuff" I have to know, like accounting, health & safety, rules and procedures, dealing with trauma, customer service, the layout of the track, signals and points on either side of my station, and problem solving. I would be glad to work with someone like your son, who has a passion for the job.

It's not just station staff, he could be a technical officer fixing track equipment, or an engineer, or a train maintainer. All very skilled jobs. He can get an apprenticeship and learn on the job.

My daughter is going to be studying for a profession that I think will not be long-term but she's 18, an adult, and I need to let her decide for herself. She will probably change direction several times in her life, as I have, and that's ok.

I don't think you have any right to tell your son what to do with his life. University isn't the only path to success and self-fulfilment OP.

Could he look for an engineering apprenticeship in the railway? The jobs are quite highly paid, in demand and good opportunities for progression as well as allowing him to live out his passion, a few of my husbands friends have really successful railway careers in different fields with either train operators or network rail. I wouldn't describe their jobs as mundane or undemanding and they all earn very well.

OP, there is nothing wrong with working on the railways, it's not badly paid work either. I know two people who work on the railways, one was a primary school head who re-trained as a driver, loves it and makes more than he did in education.

The other, my neighbour is a track laying foreman, has worked on the rails his whole life, has a nice 4 bedroom house, good cars, wife and two kids, just got back from a Caribbean cruise.

I'm a commercial electrician, self employed, not on the railways, and could earn over £100K if I did more than 3 days a week. There is a massive shortage of people willing (especially in the younger generation) to learn practical skills, ergo the work is easy to get and the returns high.

Compared to many sectors the Rail Industry offers really good salaries and benefits. It is also a sector where experience counts for a lot - many working in rail operations (even in senior very well paid jobs) may not be "academic" in the classic sense and I would say career development is excellent if you are interested and work hard.

Wow.

From the title I assumed he would be into drugs, wreckless causal sex, criminal activity - to read that he’s a He’s a truly lovely boy (happy, affectionate) BUT disappointingly (FOR YOU) he’s a trainspotter, with low ambition, which has left you quite bereft inside.

Surely your main concern should be that he is happy?! Which he is. Jesus, he could have a severe disability which impacts massively on his and your life! You’re imposing your own desires on your son and that’s so wrong. Try to be grateful for the qualities you listed in your OP. Wow.

I would try work with him to see what the various job opportunities are in the railway and what qualifications are needed for each. See if you can inspire him to want to work towards something less menial (although the menial job is probably good as entry into the world of work alongside studying or as a gap year).

Electrician here agreeing wholeheartedly - people often think those of us who work in anything not office based are doing menial work without realising quite how much we need to know or the fact that quite often we are well paid and in short supply.

We also have the distinction of being currently impossible to replace with AI, unlike most of the office dwellers who will be ultimately replaced by automation.

My father was like your son, albeit many years ago now. He was passionate about trains too, and spent all his spare time at the local station learning all he could about them - also to the despair of his parents. As soon as he was old enough (16 in those days) he got a job working on a railway - as a fairly menial secretary in the first place as it was the only job he could get there at the time (he went and trained on typing and shorthand with all the women, knowing it was all he could get without proper qualifications). From that he worked his way up, learnt to drive a train (I suspect unofficially ), then became an apprentice engineer, and learnt how to fix them, (though never went to university). He went up through the ranks rapidly, and ended up in a VERY senior management position on the railways. After his retirement he became a popular speaker about railways and railway management and has had a wonderful retirement. He has attributed his success to the fact he loved railways/ trains so much, and said many times he was so fortunate to have a job that was his hobby, where he looked forward to work every morning. It was some time ago of course since he started out, but another relative has followed a similar route more recently and is now also currently very senior in that world. There is an excellent career progression possible there if your son wants that, so please don’t despair about an apparent lack of prospects - there are more prospects there than you might imagine at first glance.

Let him find his way OP - he has found something he loves which many of us never do - he will learn in time whether it supports the lifestyle he wants and sounds like he’s bright enough to go to uni later if he changes his mind . Comparison is the thief of joy - cliched but true .

Your son is actually really lucky that he has found a passion that makes him happy and fulfilled.

Not many 18 year olds/ people in general find that and live their lives for others, doing what they think they should be doing and feeling unfulfilled and depressed, living vicariously through influencers or their children.

I've only read your own posts, OP. But I think counselling may be a good idea for you.
Your post reads in the same way as I feel for my daughter. But my daughter is disabled with a life limiting condition. I have the same feelings as you - comparing her to her peers who will go to uni, who will have successful careers etc and she won’t. But the difference is your son is happy and healthy and things may even change for him in a few years time and he’ll go down a different path. He might work his way up in his industry and become very successful and financially stable. He may meet a partner and together they can afford all sorts of things - maybe even things that even you haven’t been able to on a single salary. Whereas my daughter may not even be here at 18. I’m not trying to make you feel sorry for my situation, but I think you need to take a step back and realise that his happiness and health is of high importance. The path he’s going down may have many turns along the way, so there’s little point in you believing you know where it’s heading.

I would caution him that there is a lot of competition to get 'on the railways' as pay is high and many roles don't need a high level of education. You can't train as a driver until 20 or 21 and then the process to get a driving apprenticeship is highly competitive. You may well be up against ex police or army with huge experience in safety critical roles or against people with degrees in engineering that have worked in other high level roles on the railway for a number or years. Competition for driving apprenticeships is fierce.

What sort of role is he looking for on the railway though? There are customer service and engineering apprenticeships but for a degree level apprenticeship in engineering i would expect competition to be fierce and top A-levels and an impressive CV to be needed even if not strictly required. There are other level 2/3/4 apprenticeships as well and I'd apply to as many as it allowed. His nearby stations may not offer every apprenticeship there is every year so he may have to apply further afield and move out.

If he is looking at a customer service job straight in (not apprenticeship) then I would say he needs to be getting as much customer service experience as he can before he applies because these are comparatively well paid jobs that people with a lot of experience from retail etc often get, I would also say that IME women are more likely generally to get these roles possibly for DEI reasons. He needs to be able to stand out at interview as he may well be up against apprentices as well as people with customer services experience.

If he goes down the apprenticeship route then he needs to make sure he is really working hard because they don't guarantee a job at the end IME. He may then have to apply for jobs and in customer service as I said there may be a lot of competition. If he goes for engineering I would expect it to be more competitive even at the lower levels to get an apprenticeship but more likely to lead to a job and better chance of progression.

The days of getting 'on the railways' and then getting picked first for jobs over those not in the railways also seems to be over IME. So he needs to be working hard and be sure not to assume he's set because he gets in.

I would look long and hard with him at what he wants to do on the railways and get any and all experience that he can, because being a train spotter will not get you a job on the railways, it's not what they're looking for. If he wants customer service then get a job in a supermarket if he doesn't already have a job. If he wants engineering then get any engineering related experience he can, work experience, volunteering, short courses online etc.

Good luck to him! Give him all the help and support that you can and don't let him think this is an easy option because getting any job these days is not a walk in the park.

I think you need to get some perspective. There are parents whose children who have far bigger educational challenges than your son has, who could only dream of being in the situation you’re in. He sounds like a lovely young man who has a special interest that will help lead to him finding a sense of community and friendship. That’s far more important than academic achievement. Let him know that you’re proud of him because if you don’t then he will start to internalise it and feel that your love is conditional.

Are you absolutely sure he isn’t autistic by the way?

Ds is almost 22 and just finishing his MEng. I was really looking forward to having him back home and him getting a job. This was his plan too but now his university is putting pressure on him to do a PhD! I'm worried he won't be able to get on the housing ladder - he thinks he'd get a £25k stipend for the PhD - if he delays getting a proper job. In the end though I just want him to be happy. Dd17 (y12) doesn't know what she wants to study at university, I've suggested a year out, but no she definitely wants to go next year!

My son surprised us by saying he didn't want to do A levels and university. I loved my uni life, and it was a massive shock that he wouldn't take that path. So I get where you're coming from, and it takes time to process the disappointment. I feel quite differently now. There's a lot to be said for following a passion. My bright son is studying catering and while I know it's long hours, low pay, and it's not what I dreamed for him, its also a huge sector and there are so many varied careers connected to food. It could well be that your son will start off in a somewhat lowly role but fly higher because he cares about the industry and progress because he's smart. It's also possible to retrain later; lots of people go to university in their mid-twenties, no doors have closed for him. It's so important to have interests in life, and it's great that he's found something that gives him direction.

You seem to be more interested in him being popular than him actually pursuing something for himself.

My DS works on the railways. He's just finished his apprenticeship and is earning over £30K at 20 years old, with ambitions to keep progessing. I'm immensely proud of him and his 'undemanding' job, which is not undemanding at all, he works bloody hard doing all sorts of things as a railway signalling engineer.

My other two children went to uni, one is still there, but it wasn't my son's path and that's fine.

Don't let your snobbery overshadow what your son wants for himself.

I think your son has amazing prospects. He may eventually decide to go to university or to follow an engineering course or he may work himself up the ladder and do a training course here and there. However, I think will be great for him to start working entry level jobs straight out of high school. It will teach him more about what he wants out of a career and it will focus his aspirations.

In your shoes I would be encouraging the heck out of this passion and I would try to learn why it interests him so much. Being at his age and having such a passion for a specific industry, that has so much potential, is rare gift.

You dug yourself out of a shitty childhood, so that your son can have a good life. I think you have succeeded.

There is and always has been snobbery around working with your hands - my school (a private one) has a particularly famous (in railway terms) old boy, Arthur Peppercorn, who after leaning school, apprenticed as an engineer under Sir Nigel Gresley (no degrees in engineering then) Designed the legendary A1 locomotive, was the chief engineer of the LNER and later BR.

School gloss over him, because lets face it he was just a grease monkey and not a classical scholar!