Struggling with DS's (18) choices - long one - sorry

[Maplewood6]

I know that I have so much to be grateful for in my DS (18). He is very happy and very popular. His life choices though are bringing me down which I know is related to my past. I had a tough upbring –parents in menial jobs where money was a major source of angst between my parents (e.g. my mum had to get solicitors involved to get housekeeping money from my dad) and my home life was emotionally and physically abusive. Every day was filled with anxiety about when/if something was going to kick off. While all this was going on, I vowed that when I had control of my life it would be entirely different to what I was going through. Luckily (or maybe because of my home life), I loved school – it was civilised and predictable unlike home and I loved learning. I was the only one in my family to go to uni, got a first at a top uni and a well paid job. I had my son on my own (100% OK with that), and he’s never gone without. He’s seen me working my socks off and with some people that instils in them a good work ethic. As I mentioned above, he’s always been popular. On leaving primary school, he got into a top secondary school (he was tutored for that but they said he was bright) and I expected everything to be plain sailing but it hasn’t. After a few years at the school, I realised that it had quite a progressive mindset (absolutely nothing about this in the open evenings/school literature) such that he was allowed to get away with not handing work in. Unlike me, he’s doesn’t have a love of learning so was quite happy with this hands off approach but it meant that he fell behind in his work, became unpopular with the teachers, then he disliked school, was even less inclined to do work etc – a vicious cycle being established. He was also unbelievably disorganised generally. GCSEs was a torturous process – it was as if he’d never been to school at all and after his GCSEs he was diagnosed with ADD (by a psychiatrist). Whilst he was going downhill at school, he got into train spotting, which became consuming and he became part of that community. It’s a full on passion which, if you’re not into trains (me), is hard to understand. Fast forward to the current day, he’s now a few months off doing A levels and massively behind as before – although not as bad as the GCSEs. He’s still a passionate train spotter spending as much time as possible doing that – literally loads of time [he definitely doesn’t have autism BTW).What I’m finding difficult is that every single one of my friends/family have children who are heading off to university and are growing up in their approach to life i.e. are looking forward to moving away from home, living independently, having their lives open up.In contrast, my DS can’t wait to leave school and has his sights set on working on the railways – that is in a mundane, undemanding job (that will allow him to see trains) and says that he’s never leaving home. It’s as if his friends lives are going to keep developing – meeting new friends etc – whereas my son’s life will be stagnating. His new friends (work colleagues) will be a bunch of mainly middle aged men. He’s a truly lovely boy (happy, affectionate) but I feel quite bereft inside.When out for lunch with a friend recently who was telling me how her son was thriving at uni both academically and in life generally (living in a house share), and how this was an important life phase, I found myself blurting out, “Oh my God, this is making me so sad” and I felt quite tearful. I’ve just spent the day yesterday with two other people and again felt really down afterwards on hearing about their children’s plans for the future – travel, uni, aspiration.One of these has a son who also has ADHD and on getting the right medication, has been transformed and almost instantly grown up. My son says his medication doesn’t work and has no interest in addressing his ADHD i.e. it took him a year to tell me that the medication he was on was not actually having any effect and he has no interest in looking at strategies that my help him life more adaptively with his ADHD symptoms. It’s like myself and my friends were all good parents but it’s paying off for them in the way their children are developing; whereas for me it hasn’t. I just feel like my escape from my childhood has been for nothing and that my son is taking himself right back there (which kills me) – a mundane job (that allows him to see trains) with low pay, and all the struggles I know that will bring as he’s used to the sort of life I’ve given him. I think the bottom line is that I’m an aspirational person so seeing a complete lack of that in my nearest and dearest is a real struggle for me. I’m not really sure why I’m posting – I suppose it’s just to have an offload. If anyone has any insights though I’m open to them.

My friend's husband hated his office job and decided he wanted to be a train driver. He failed the reflex test and had to resit it - he basically practised video games and catching a ruler falling off a desk over and over again. There are books on how to prepare to be axtrain driver and if that's what he wants to do I would suggest he gets hold of one.

I would choose a happy child over a rich unhappy one every time.
You don't own their souls.

Surely your child finding a job they love is the ultimate dream? You call the job ‘mundane’ because you don’t like trains, but to him the job would be interesting and fulfilling and would allow him to meet other people with a shared interest. There are much worse things your son could be into at 18 and much worse aspirations he could have than getting a job on the railways.

Obviously it’s not ideal that he doesn’t want to leave home, but he is only 18 I know lots of young adults still living at home. If in another 5 years when he’s working he still isn’t aspiring to move out obviously then it would be reasonable to start to worry a bit, and to push him to move on, but right now at 18 I think it’s impressive that he is at least considering what kind of job he would enjoy. Lots of young adults his age only want to sit at home and game/ doomscroll social media and have no interest in finding a job whatsoever.

If I’m honest you sound pathetic - he’s 18 !! He’s found a job, he’s a pleasant lad and he’s making HIS own way not yours or your expectations HIS way. Let him be, this isn’t your life and my god it could be so much worse but it’s not - I don’t get it I’m afraid - all we want surely are well raised hard working kids and that’s what you have 🤷🏻‍♀️ he’ll probably meet someone at some point and before you know it he’ll be gone so guide him while you can but don’t stifle his choices because YOU had better in mind for him

As someone who loves trains and has worked in the industry for years, you should actually encourage him. The pay and conditions are fantastic, and the job security is really good too.

His lack of focus and the debt involved would be a uni disaster. My nephew left with no degree and with debts of 30k. He has so long to change but the railway sector is no dead end. I think you need some therapy to work through your feelings as you have stopped being open to different ways. One of mine would say he has no plans to move out as he sees home owning as a con. He plans to buy outright if he does or to buy with the support of having rooms to rent. He thinks that you work all your life to buy a box that you then sell for care others get for free while making the bank profits. He saves like crazy and lives frugally but without depriving himself and actually I wonder now where my snobbery about moving out came from. I think it’s just because it’s what I did and what our society values but achieving living independently while getting on with your parents isn’t really any worse and let’s face it the costs are crazy now. A friend’s son lives on a tiny island in a van and surfs all week in between easy jobs. I think I would quite like to be him these days. What would be really sad would be if you don’t find your joy and love in your son’s life and character.

I think he sounds lovely and gently would suggest you need to detach your feelings about yourself and your upbringing from your feelings about his choices. As pp have said he is still v young. But truly what I got from your post is that's he's a lovely boy.

At least your son has a passion and knows the industry he wants to work in. At that age, he's already more certain than most. How many of your friends' uni kids know what they want to do? How many have chosen university to put off the inevitable of having to decide what to do? Are your friends competitive mums? Have they forced their kids down the university route? You might be surprised if they were honest with you.

Once he starts working/doing an apprenticeship, your son will meet other young people and want to start spreading his wings, and most likely want to move out too.

I do understand how it feels (first person in family to go to uni here, my kids didn't do terribly well academically and neither went to uni). However both my kids are respectful, kind adults, who are well liked by their peers, have stable jobs and show positive behaviour in life . For example, one of my kids bought his nan a washing machine when her's broke, one works in security and has saved women from likely sexual assault, and has saved a life by doing CPR.

I would have loved for them to have the financial security that I do now, but they have found their own way.

Try to think of it as you have brought him up to know what he wants from life.

I think as parents we can’t make children be something they are not. He may progress at the railway and it may lead to other things. I would try to just watch and wait. He is only young maybe he can’t imagine being an adult with responsibilities hence saying he will stay at home. He may change. I think as hard as it is you need to try and keep your own experiences separate from his choices.

@Maplewood6 I have two sons - one just turned 17 (with diagnosed ADHD) and the other 15 and they are chalk and cheese. But both are happy (currently). DS1 can be quite arrogant/confident but has a good group of friends and quite ambitious in his endeavours (currently wants to do finance in university but that has changed a lot over the course of time - he wanted to do sports science, then law and I don’t know if that will change again!).

I have struggled with his arrogance/confidence and his ADHD for a long time, it manifests in him pushing his boundaries. He struggles to contain his anger and has put a fist through two doors in the house. But as he matures and with the right ADHD meds, he’s managing that better. I know he smokes a bit (which kills me, I am completely anti-smoking), also dabbles in a bit of weed, does nicotine pouches (hate that so much, I think he will get mouth cancer) and drinks occasionally. My 15-year-old in comparison is a dream!

But I try to comfort myself that they are both happy in their own way, confident (as opposed to riddled with anxiety like I know a lot of kids are these days) and will find their way in the world and I hope my ‘good parenting’ (or what I call doing my best I can!) has contributed to that. It’s hard when you are in the trenches though, when I find a bit of weed or an empty doggie pack in his trouser pockets or room, I just die a little… I know when DS1 turns 18, I will have very little to control in his life so I am trying to practise letting go… I think I have found that really hard about parenting teens, the letting go element.

The wanting to stay at home bit is worrying. My DS1 has said he might stay in London (where we live!) for uni but I have encouraged him to spread his wings further afield so he gets the full university experience.

You have one DS and you sounded like you have done amazingly well. Could you think about downsizing your house and plan to help him get a foot on the housing ladder in a few years? I have been thinking about that option for my DSes for a while. I currently have a live-out boyfriend and if we do ever live together (after my DSes leave soon), I may sell up and we buy a smaller place together and I give both my DSes a lump sum each to buy a place. This is a 5-year plan so my DSes will be 23 and 21 then and I have a better idea of where their lives are heading. But it’s in my head as an option. All the best! I think you need to give yourself a pat on your back that he is happy. That is priceless!

I think you should chill and get behind him instead of comparing to others.

He has passion and ambition, that's more than a lot of 18 year olds. You don't like what he likes though and are making it a problem.

Going to uni = debt and no guarantee of a good job.

What he does now is not a commitment for life so support him or he'll start to distance himself. Most young adults try many different paths before sticking with something. He sounds great to me.

I understand your feelings op. I have a son who has thrived academically but despite being one of the funniest, smartest, coolest kids I know hasn't always thrived socially. He is a true introvert (I am not). He has gone travelling under duress with a cousin (also 18) and hearing him on calls/seeing pics of him I can see how much this is enriching his life.

I just wanted him to have the experience of shaking off who he used to be (if he wanted to) and seeing that there is more to the world than being the shy nerd in our small town. Is there any way you could get him to go away for a few months? If he is still as interested in trains when h gets back then great - let him pursue it. I just think they can't possibly know what's available to them in the world if they don't get out and see.

University isn’t for everyone, in fact universities are becoming increasingly undesirable as there are better options available that don’t leave you with tens of thousands of debt.

For me depending on your career choices, universities are becoming outdated.

My 2 children refused point blank to attend university, they are both academically high achiever’s (7,8,9)

Ds1 (19) is in his 3rd year of his mechanical engineering degree, his company are paying his degree, his yearly salary is £28k , he also has private healthcare benefit, alongside paying into his pension.

He will be getting his degree without being in debt at the end of it, he gets to travel the world with his company (not long back from Japan and America) and the experiences he is experiencing is far greater than any course could give him.

Ds2 (15) is currently doing his GCSE’s , he will likely become a professional rugby player however he is looking at networking apprenticeships and has been shortlisted for a few, with outstanding career prospects.

Be open minded, research his hobby and look into apprenticeships that supports his skill sets.

Not many people going to Uni are academic, it’s just a thing to do, to get you away, in most cases.
A job however, is something everyone needs.
With some encouragement he will branch out into his own place to live xxx
Be proud that he’s happy, lots aren’t.

So my husband works and I used to work in another transport related sector. He joined the company as driver albeit he had an engineering background having done an apprenticeship after leaving school. He worked his way up the driving side to supervisor and then moved to engineering, when a vacancy arose, then moving up to a manager. He is now an engineering director. I on the other hand joined the same company as a graduate trainee, with good grades from school and a good degree from a Russell group uni. Despite this I never managed to get the promotion to the same level that my husband did. I left a few years ago as I recognised this and am in a completely different sector and have now been recommended for promotion. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that going to uni isn't everything and my husband's hard work and dedication paid off. I wouldn't hesitate to encourage my kids to follow a similar path despite being high achievers at school.

Came on here to say university isn't a smart choice anymore unless you are already rich so the vast debt they come out with us not issue. But it's already been said many times.

What is a smart choice (if he wants to go to uni!) is getting a job that puts you through uni or something vocational. I am wondering if the engineering route would be right for him? I work with a lot of engineer and tech types, high rates of ADHD and autism but lovely people. Very practical and lots of problem solving. Also trains is absolutely a major hobby of people with autistic traits I know at least 4!!! Being academic is not the be all end all. I'd say I see that a lot of girls are academic and enjoy it (or tolerate it) but many boys are less academic. But let's be honest the salary gap suggest boys are still doing pretty well, just being a boy means you are unlikely to have a career gap so your earning potential is already higher..

There are lots of degree apprenticeships these days such as electrical engineering etc on the railways, maybe encourage him to have a look at those?

University is NOT a goal in itself. Only go to university if the education and training you will undertake there provides a stepping stone to a defined life goal and/or career choice, and the investment makes financial sense.

Quite a variety of job roles here

www.hs2.org.uk/jobs-and-skills/careers-with-our-supply-chain/jobs

I think it’s actually fantastic that your son has a pronounced interest in something and it’s something with potential career progression AND doesn’t require university fees! You know the Government have paid internships for train driver training? A levels can qualify some to apply. There are other avenues also. If I were you I’d be looking at possible careers to do with trains and discuss them with your son - get excited with him about options for the future! If he was excited to go down the train driver route that could be great as a career - Train drivers in the UK earn between £24k and £60k per year, with the average being £48,500.
Another thing to do is go on the likes of the Network Rail jobs website and look at all the types of jobs on there. Do this on your own perhaps and research a bit into what training would look like etc and then go on and scroll through with your son - give him support and guidance. There are plenty of jobs in this field which are highly skilled, highly respected and well paid. This is where he needs you to talk pathways with him and highlight the importance of building a career in something he loves so he can support himself in the future.
As for living at home, surely that’s fine for now so I wouldn’t make him feel unwelcome or a failure over it!! It’s incredibly hard to get on the housing ladder right now. Bear in mind though (and maybe even light heartedly chat with him) - there are trains all over the world that need engineers etc! Maybe plan a holiday to somewhere that he would like to see the trains there!! Ideally somewhere you’d like to go too!
Inspire him, Encourage him and let him know you are there to support him as best you can as he follows his dreams.
ps. Ignore all the other parents’ comments and stop comparing - your son could well end up more successful and happier than the lot of them! University really isn’t for everyone… and I say that as an Oxbridge grad myself with 3 kids… I genuinely would be happy to see any of my kids on a traineeship leading to a career that they loved. Uni can be a massive expense and waste of time.

I’d like you to consider reframing it for yourself.

As you say he is happy and socially well adjusted. He just finds happiness in something different to what you’d like.

I think it’s fantastic he has found something he is genuinely interested and passionate about. Most kids, the ones that go to uni etc, don’t know what they want/ what their real passion is.

Let me give you an example. At quite a young age I knew I wanted to work in tv/film - a very competitive and somewhat toxic career path. I was top of my class in most things and my parents wanted something more ‘serious and respectable’ and probably safer for me.

So there I am, 15-16 years old, working behind the scenes in some major shows etc. Presenting and interviewing important figures before I was even 18. Did I get any recognition from my parents from it? No, it was hardly ever mentioned or if anything, criticised. It was teachers and other people that supported me and thus I just gravitated towards them because they took an interest in the person i really was. A lot of them were middle aged men - nothing wrong with them, would you rather your son got high with people his own age? 😂

I went to the top of the tree in this industry because of genuine passion and dedication.

Everyone thought it was thanks to my parents’ connections and support, and it was quite the opposite. We’ve repaired the relationship over the years but it still hurts as you can tell.

Your son has found something he is super passionate about. Being passionate and knowledgeable and putting the work in is absolutely priceless. Just let him be who he is and find his own path, don’t rip something off him that’s working for him. You can’t anyway, he’s 18.

If someone is passionate about something, they’ll go far and find fulfilment and happiness in it. Perhaps financial reward if that’s important to you. And they may fall out of love with it and career change at 30. Life isn’t decided at 18.

As for the ‘never leaving home’/ medical issues comments… He’s a teen, he’ll grow and change, some of it may just be pure rebellion.

You have parents who are desperate the other way around because their kids move to Australia or even really far for uni, and they rarely have any contact after age 18.

Seems like there’s no winning either way.

Adult kids will disappoint you and you will have moments where you disagree with their choices.

One of the things that always hurts is a parent going ‘I think you made a mistake’ re something that’s done and dusted like leaving an ex, or where they don’t have full context.

It sounds a bit like you have an idea of what a child of yours should be like that you are struggling to let go of. Instead of accepting the person that they have become and getting to know that person

I have a neurodiverse, slightly train obsessed DS who isn’t hugely academic so this feels quite personal.

Mine is only 11 but I am already struggling with similar emotions - I was hugely academic at school and I had high aspirations for DS. My friends DCs are getting all the achievement awards, going of the grammar school etc. “Comparison is the theft of joy” is a bit of a mantra for me.

To be honest though I would be thrilled if mine manages to navigate the teen years and is happy, with a wholesome hobby and an idea of what they want to do with their life (so many great careers in the railways, even if doesn’t fast track into something high paid). He sounds great, honestly.

18 is still young - as long as you are helping to foster skills to be independent I wouldn’t panic that he isn’t desperate to move out yet.

You should be grateful that your son has a strong sense of self and what will make him happy, despite you undermining his choices with your version of how he should be.

He’s found a path that makes him happy. There’s lots of time and opportunity for his personal and career development ahead with your support.

dh has friends who work in the railways and they earn a fucking fortune. They have so much time off with their families and are so so happy, wish they’d done it years ago (late re trainers) and are envious of the kids who are sorted enough to do it now.

isn’t that what we want for our kids.
to be happy?