Awful parent’s evening

[MoSalahsBeard]

We have been struggling with our son lately but the parent’s evening last night was very upsetting.

all but 2 teachers said he is distracted, doesn’t focus, and has had to be moved away from other kids.

On top of that as soon as we walked through the school gates his body language changed. He’s stuck his hands in his pockets and was walking around with a swagger. He sat in front of the teachers slumped down with his arms folded.

We found out recently he has been vaping as well.

we are despairing. We are looking in to adhd as he struggles to focus on homework at home too and we have to keep stints to 10 minutes max.

I don’t know whether to move him to another school or what. I’m so upset. What do we do?

Can you provide data to demonstrate how many diagnoses of ADHD (and let's throw in Autism) have had to be overturned because they were wrong?

Surely if someone goes for a an adhd test, if it's a qualified person testing, then you are either diagnosed or not? There's a threshold to be passed etc. So there's no worries if op decides to get her ds tested are there?

Have you, or his teachers, ever thought that he 'can't' do it, rather than 'won't' do it. And then all the tightening up of parental rules, punishments in school etc will make him feel worse and worse and he will end up in a huge downward spiral.

This is what happened to my undiagnosed ADHD daughter and I would not wish the consequences on anyone

Neurodivergence is genetically linked to hyper mobility/EDS/POTS. All these can cause pretty awful digestive problems.

Why do people get so upset about this subject. I am trying to understand the psychology behind ' not everyone is ADHD' ' Its just feckless parents ' . Who gets hurt if OP just sorts an assessment out? Anyone???

There's not enough here for any of us to know in this kids case but if this post is genuine, there's going to be significantly more triggering mum's instinct.

What useless parent who can't discipline would ever come on MN and ask for support regards their difficult child.

Might it in fact be that the ND population is pretty significant and numbers are greater than we realise.

And yep, I feel a lot for teachers. They're being set up to fail right now with a huge influx of SEN kids diagnosed and undiagnosed.

An ADHD diagnosis is entirely subjective, there is no "threshold to be passed" - you answer questions like Are you often inattentive, which it's easy to say yes to - especially if you're a teenage boy. There are A LOT of quacks out there who will give the diagnosis to anyone who pays and a lot of more scrupulous doctors who are nonetheless badgered by parents into giving the diagnosis to get them off their backs. Just remember if you do get your diagnosis it might help you excuse your child's behaviour short term but it won't help you work on any strategies to cope with their failings (and all children have failings), you'll just be putting your child on drugs with side effects potentially for life.

My son has ADHD. It's blindingly obvious to me as all the Executive Functioning skills really are impaired compared to peers.

As part of the assessment which I was involved in, we had the Connors questionnaires which are a very detailed thorough assessment carried out by 3 individuals in different settings including school. So it isn't a simple case of oh yes here you go. Then there's a process of assessing the individuals directly according to criteria that should be followed by all assessors. Any who are not following this or any NICE guidelines may be questions. But where are all these falsely diagnosed people? The true prevalence is huge and people seem to struggle with this.

I do believe there are unscrupulous quacks everywhere and we have problems with issuing of conditions for significantly less than ADHD assessments. I think of that awful FND stuff.

A time will come where there will be measures using brain scans ( at least for autism) and people won't have to keep dealing with this.

The reason most people get a positive diagnosis is because.....they know they are and went and pursued the assessment.

OP - look up 'Partnering not Parenting'.

It's not just for depressed kids with mental health issues, but also neuro diverse kids who are struggling in our ridiculous education system

I'm fully aware of that. But there are also plenty of highly trained specialists.

When I use "threshold to pass" I do not mean x out of 10 or whatever. I mean you are either diagnosed or not as with anything. Just getting tested doesn't mean you are ADHD if that's what you are suggesting?

Any good practitioner will put in place or recommend ways to improve their prospects after diagnosis specifically developed to do this.

Plenty of people who get diagnosed don't or can't take medication. But they benefit from a diagnosis so they understand themselves better and move forward.

I don't think these brain scans will come as soon as you think

It’s completely incorrect that you can’t or shouldn’t set boundaries with a person with ADHD. They need more firm boundaries than other kids, not fewer.

My son 100% has boundaries and consequences if he doesn’t follow them. I am not horrible to him, of course I make allowances and support him properly at home- he gets medication if he needs it, multivitamins, cod liver oil, good diet, nice place to sleep etc. We also talk a lot about self-regulation, the need for him to recognise the signs that his behaviour is deteriorating etc.

If there are consequences they are appropriate, like going up to his room for some time to cool down, missing an activity if he’s been disruptive there, limiting screens if he’s coming off them in a foul mood, that sort of thing. But they are (mostly) imposed calmly and once things have been resolved we move on.

If you’re letting a child do exactly what they want, be rude or aggressive, give teachers attitude, vape and go out at all hours and blaming ADHD then you’re doing them a massive disservice (I’m not saying that the OP is doing this, these are just examples).

@gladtidingss I certainly agree with that.

The Autistic academic, Temple Grandin, has written a wonderful book on Autism which I read recently.

She references a great deal of research underway in this field in the States. There have been studies demonstrating identifiable differences on brain scans. It's no great stretch to think this is goihng to be possible.

The barriers will be time,cost and will, not validity.

Happy to see any examples of evidence contrary to mine if anyone has any......

Exactly this!

Some parents are using ND as an excuse to just stop parenting their child and then going online and advising other parents to do the same. I'm really horrified by the number of posters suggesting that children with ADHD shouldn't face consequences for their actions, or even be made to go to school.

It's a difficult world out there and even harder if you have ND, and by setting such low expectations for ND children we are setting them up to fail in the real world.

SD15 has AuDHD, is getting brilliant grades and would never disrespect a teacher. She gets the support she needs (movement breaks, medication, assistance with organisation, a tutor and extra time in exams, plus the benefit of ND adults who can advise her on strategies that might work) and knows that we don't expect any less of her because she has ADHD. If she feels anxious we work on strategies to help her, we don't give her the option of just opting out of anything challenging.

Thx @golemmings for sharing those websites. I’ve looked up understood and have found it very helpful. I couldn’t find additive (I thought it might be a typo or autocorrect) for ADHD but I found ADDitude. Was that the website you were referring to?

www.additudemag.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopFmjl6nyABkC-tHKSIdXMjLAquzGu6LPdD-wpyFX00CUrJ_WU9

www.understood.org/en/podcasts/in-it/discipline-adhd-learning-differences

To all those people saying punishment doesn't work with ADHD....How else do you manage things then?
You can't just let them get away with poor grades because they just didn't revise, and didn't try to to revise despite days of nagging etc.
All very well offering 'nice things'. When I told my DS if he gets decent scores (70%) in his next set of tests he would get a new PS game, he told me it 'wasn't worth the effort'!!
There is only so much 'incentivising' you can do, I get it can't all be negative, but very hard not to be negative when the child is displaying behaviours which seem to verge between extreme laziness and willful lack of effort.

How did you get all this? Private diagnosis?

I am also a parent to a 14 year old (Year 9) boy. Bad attitude has been a very common theme when talking about parents evening with other parents at the football pitch.

The little Year 7 cherubs, sitting attentively,being respectful to teachers, doing what is asked of them have morphed. Attitude, not caring if they get detentions (which can become a bit of a badge of honour amongst them), more concerned with how they appear to peer group than parents or teachers. Once they have decided a detention isn't the end of the world its no longer a deterrent.

I agree with other posters who say take a good look at your sons friendship group. Two teachers commented about my sons friends - including one who said be careful who you pick to be friendly with (we knew exactly who she was referring to & I've told my son its fine to be friends with him out of lessons, but he needs to focus in lessons & I'm hoping they don't share many GCSE classes. What I mean is they can be easily led at that age, and they are more interested in having a laugh in the moment. So many of the 'popular boys' act like this. I remember at the same age I was really immature, wanted to be 'cool' and was consumed with thoughts of boys rather than the lessons I was in!

So we reward and encourage our son when he tries. Help him with revision. He's completely unmotivated to do it himself so I've had to accept I have to do it with him which is not really a joy as both he and I would rather be doing other things but he does like the praise when he gets a decent result.

I think your son is putting on a front. You know he knows how to conduct himself properly with adults. Again compliment him when you see him behaving maturely.

I would calmly explain a zero tolerance policy on vaping though and loss of playstation for a couple of days if he's found doing it. Plus encourage him to hang out with 'sensible' friends who will be a good role model.

Additude is fantastic. I refer to this myself often. There's some early research to suggest nutritional deficits might worsen symptoms. There's new research regarding gut integrity and the role of probiotics.

I doubt it's going to transform but I really believe there's going to be more data in the future to firm up these links. Additude is pretty useful for looking at this type of research as well as practical advice.

Move schools.

He needs a big change right now. Take control back of the situation by removing him and giving him a fresh start.

(If you like reading there's a book called Hold onto Your Kids that I found extremely helpful)

@MrsSunshine2b this is oversimplification at it's finest.

Do people go around saying no consequences for my little Johnny? Do they really? Or do they say, there's something here that shows me consistently that the response to typical consequences is different. I'm therefore going to have to widen my repertoire!

PDA is a type of Autism wherein you have kids who are pathologically driven to have total autonomy over themselves. The hierarchy between adult and child is not instinctively understood or respected. You therefore have no choice but to work with every tool imaginable and at times you're going to have no choices but reduction of demands and collaborating with them. It's a parenting nightmare I'm sad to say.

This is sensible, well read and informed information. If your Autistic child is sat still doing everything they're told, you certainly are not dealing with PDA.

I can’t speak for @MrsSunshine2b but we followed the NHS route and got an assessment/ diagnosis when my son was about 8. We then applied for and got an EHCP which has the adjustments he requires written into it. It’s perfectly possible to do this even if it does take a while and you have to be decent at paperwork.

You don’t need a diagnosis to get an ECHP though, but most schools will recommend normal parenting techniques first and you almost have to prove that you’ve tried all of those before they will take it seriously. Plus schools (especially the SENCO) can be good at spotting genuine SEN over kids who are just acting up. With my son he genuinely couldn’t regulate himself when smaller despite actually wanting to- he wasn’t trying to be naughty, he wanted to behave and listen but it was almost impossible for him to do it without help.

Good book. I read this recently. I totally agree. The fear that we must socialise kids early is poor advice and the approach in this book is definitely more sensible.

If you're dealing with ND you have the added struggles of peer relationships. My own is always drawn to the more rebellious types and is himself the same. I ask continually why them. I find they're usually also ND so that makes sense, or they're somehow also on the periphery so they can relate.

Teachers have so much to try manage in school right now.

Hang on though @Wishyouwerehere50 you’re now assuming pathological demand avoidance? Not all kids with ADHD have this and it’s a pretty big leap to assume he does without even trying.

You can't just let them get away with poor grades because they just didn't revise, and didn't try to to revise despite days of nagging etc.
All very well offering 'nice things'. When I told my DS if he gets decent scores (70%) in his next set of tests he would get a new PS game, he told me it 'wasn't worth the effort'!!
There is only so much 'incentivising' you can do, I get it can't all be negative, but very hard not to be negative when the child is displaying behaviours which seem to verge between extreme laziness and willful lack of effort.

I never offer incentives for revision and have always expected a basic level of behavior and effort all the time. That started very young and we have had problems some school years more than others.

You can't IMO expect grades - effort or work in is what you can expect.

With revision I sat down and worked out a plan with them - which I found had to be unquie to them and how they worked best which with DS has evolved with age.

DS in GCSE needed someone sat with him - often directly involved - by Y12 he needed a lighter touch. DD2 needs a what she needs to get through that week plan - and workbooks and regaular check in. DD1 need much more hand off advice - and encouragment to use on-line sites and attend anything college offered and given printed off past papers to do. She now manages her degree work load extremely well though often finds like I do she works better somewhere public like a library rather than in room with more distractions and needs deadlines.

Some days DS need to sit downstairs in more public place than his bedroom to get started and keep going. Some time they need help going over partcular concepts - so look at different explinations and then answering questions to make sure they get it.

Nagging and demanging certain grades - just add pressue - I've found mine needed more support - which as they get older and as you teach skills like how to revise gradually decreases.

The OP can't concentrate for more than 10 minutes on HW - well they'd be sat next to me till it's done - with me keeping them on track- even if that took all our evenings and weekends. Also give me chance to see where the problems were to offer more support with those.

We initially took her for a private session with an ADHD counsellor who spent a few hours with her and wrote a report, then submitted it to the doctor (in our area there was only one ADHD specialist doctor and you saw the same one private or NHS- the only difference was the wait time.) She got a private diagnosis initially and then referred for shared care at the GP so she was on the NHS pathway by the time she entered secondary.

Her school did a CAT and put together an SEN plan before she started.

Because you had the money to pay to queue jump jump over families that can’t.

Other families are battling with nothing.