Continuation of AR housing thread

[TheNuthatch]

Continuation of the Angela from housing thread. For those who want to moan about the government and share thoughts and articles.

Yes hopefully zelensky will stay in his war attire and there will be some great pics with Charles 🤣🤣😍😍.

Well I imagine at no 10 they will be telling zelensky what they had to do before meeting Trump! The prep etc.

Rubio gave an interview and said they had been talking to zelensky for 10 days about all this and yet when he arrived he went off piste.

Rubio is definitely against putin and understands the dangers. One wonders what Intel they have ie China is scary we need to "pivot" and sharpish or putin going senile and mad and we need to stop this safely now who knows.

I didn't realise trump and zelensky have met a few times before and Biden had to say once, can you show some more gratitude. The guy is desperate and living on his last nerve..
I don't think all is lost at all and may even go better for him.

Lots of people fall out with Trump and are friends later. Jd vance absolutely savaged Trump before!!

Very cheeky of him saying to zelensky you went to campaign for the other team (which I don't think was f
True anyway)

I think they probably have to be careful as well with what they say to him because let's say USA is planning on that backstop but in a discrete way,they don't want putin to know but zelensky may let it slip.
I totally understand his frustration and emotion but if your trying to do delicate negotiations you do need to be shrewd and calm

Hopefully Rutte will be there tomorrow. He seems calm, knowledgeable and has no polling issues

They need to figure out a salvage operation behind the scenes which also allows Trump to save face.

Rubio is interesting. He's definitely anti Putin. He didn't look impressed at the oval office scrap yesterday.

I've calmed down again now I've done some gardening. I've been pruning JD Vance's fingers this afternoon 😂. Apologies for the rant this morning.

Zelenskyy needs to eat some humble pie to repair the shattered relationship with Trump
as Trump is able to bankroll military aid or not

It appears from what Starmer is saying that Starmer and Macron will form a buffer, if you will, between Trump and Zelensky.

It's hard to bridge this, for Trump it's a transaction, for Zelensky it's a matter for life and death. Also, there is bad blood between Trump and Zelensky.

Trump needs Russia on his side to balance China and Iran. Where does this leave Europe, with or without Ukraine, is the big question.

It depends how European countries can square the additional cost of supporting the Ukraine. Will they think that it is too costly to fund or too costly not to fund?

I thought the idea was to have the US in as well, just have the negotiating process with the UK and France assisting Z.

@billysboy that's pretty much what NATO are saying

The question is whether other leaders will advise Z to just sign without security added

I can't see Trump moving on this, he'll likely walk first. His mandate is different to ours

But I guess we have to find out either way in next few days

Is that a US approved plan? Idk, we seem to have a lot of plans that work only from the assumption that the US will play ball. And that seems like a perilous foundation for a plan.

My bigger worry is that if the US feels boxed in that it will pull out of NATO completely.

@Upstartled that's a concern here too

I think it's more if US walk from Ukraine because Z and others say no if no security there's far less reason to stay in NATO

I imagine this is a factor in Rutte's statements

If he's worried about that outcome then I am for sure

There is an excellent round up (as usual) on the Ukraine thread the new one.
Apparently Russia is totally reliant on being a war eccomony now from what I've read I don't feel hopeful that putin wants to negotiate at all.
He won't attack nato but it would suit him very well to keep Ukraine rumbling on.

Looks like Z has been advised to go and sign the deal, no mention of any rewriting of a clause on security

'Lord Peter Mandelson, the British Ambassador to the US, told Volodymyr Zelensky to return to the White House to mend his rift with Donald Trump and to sign the US-Ukraine rare minerals deal'

Oh man, Mandelson 😬 the New Labour Machiavelli...less shouting, more twisting.

It wouldn't be said without Starmer saying do this, would it?

Which is fascinating. Starmer wants to be the I'm all in optics and in the background it's oi just go and sign.

Next up will those peacekeeping troops get in at all.

If it works, you can guarantee that Mandelson will make sure he gets the credit. Apparently he's been working with Farage in an effort to schmooze Trump.

I don't see that there's any change in wording in that statement so it's really Z turning up a couple of days later to sign.

Idk, I'm in end of half term-maggedon, I'm missing a lot.

Ha I get like that ours was last week.

It looks like Trump will be getting what he was after.

I actually think it's a good idea to have Mandelson in there.

Machiavellian approach is so much better here. If you want to beat someone who doesn't have morals on their own game, then Machiavellian is what you need.

I even think Boris Johnson might be good for this. The less morals and scruples the better.

Thanks!

Absolutely, throw some of the old guard at it.

I'm not criticising the approach - just, you know, observing the machinations.

I also think Starmer wants to distance from the conceding. He's doing wants to be the guy behind Z, Europe optics leader, not the you and we got it wrong go back and sign person.

So someone else is told to tell Z

Not sure if they'll get cameras out.

Wouldn't want to knock the gloss of the Falkland's effect.

@Upstartled oh yes I recall that one