Thread 16 Starmer - Mad World

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5251589-thread-15-starmer-nolite-te-bastardes-carborundorum?page=40&reply=141533067

Across the UK there are millions of people living in those poorer communities, exposed to the same misinformation that is everywhere and yet not rioting or being violent. Stop it with the excuses, it's utterly disrespectful to all the people who saw the news and didn't choose to go out and commit crimes.

Now this is just going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I think the internet, social media and some of the mainstream media have played a massive part in misinforming people, radicalising people and adding fuel to the fire. Along with certain politicians and prominent commentators.

People have biases, They react emotionally without critically thinking.

It's also the same way terrorist ideologies work - how they radicalise people.

People spend time in echo chambers, surrounded by people with similar views and not listening to other views or seeing them as other and trying to find a way to prove themselves right.

At what point do people have to take responsibility for their actions in a world where access to "information" to form views is massive

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jan/21/prisons-minister-aims-to-close-one-womens-jail-in-england-and-wales

Positive changes

Philp going full on on attack towards Labour and disclosure, post the murders.

Too much kid gloves and politieness from Labour, this iteration of the Tories, is far more Trump than Heath.

It’s a small treat rather than a full size one, but yes!

Thanks for the new thread. Sorry, no cat tax atm as in work.

Have we jumped the shark?

Someone did something bad, so I decided to use it as an excuse to join a riot, therefore it's not my fault, I clearly did nothing wrong, because the government and public servants knew the ill person was ill, and didn't stop him from using his free will to do bad things. It's their fault that he did bad things, that I chose to use as an excuse to do bad things, so the bad things I did are the government's fault, not my fault and I should be absolved from any blame.

Is this really what the perpetrators and their supporters are thinking? That's insanity.

It is not that simple because the Russian state interfered as well and incited violence and rioting and a lot of these people are quite simple?

And of course, we can just say any real life violence is a crime, of course they are, but sentencing is meant to take into account the whole picture. The simplicity of the person, the online grooming they may have experienced, the Covid closures, their insularity, their poverty.

The hard underlying fact remains that we as a society are failing are young and they are exposed to the violence online and we are not policing it and social media giants are not taking responsibility. Online violence has to be banned and responsibility has to be taken and laws need to become really strict, even regarding viewing of content.

As for the algorithms - again businesses profit immensely but at what cost to society.
We are always one step behind all of this and people in charge need to police these things fast faster and the question is how our democratic processes (slow) deal with it.

"Russia did it" is not a defence in UK law.

Thank you for the new thread, we need to stick together here, things feel quite scary with everything that is going on in the world at the moment. I am very worried about America leaving the WHO and appointing a vaccine sceptic as Secretary of Health. There are outbreaks of H5N1 which are crossing species in America, the danger of another pandemic is ever present. Cat tax attached in the shape of my little white girl who we got home in December after being missing for over five months, she is doing well.

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/how-did-foreign-actors-exploit-recent-riots-uk

She has got a bit of a bunny look with those ears Evenstars. Is she settling in ok?

The secret barrister

The public enquiry should also consider the behaviour of elected politicians during the investigation and prosecution of this case, and their willingness to confect rumour and spread inflammatory misinformation in the service of their own agendas.

Love her bi-coloured eyes @Evenstar

I think there is a lot to be said for holding politicians to account for the shite they spout outside of the sanctity of parliament.

Also, what is a "politician" exactly ? Am I being too harsh in saying it should only ever apply to someone who has been elected to a public office ? Which excludes all of the Lords.

So if "politician" only covers elected persons, then they can be held to a higher standard than us plebs. And MPs in particular have parliamentary privilege, if they feel really strongly about an issue. Outside of parliament they should be held to a higher standard again.

Stephen Yaxley Lennon and Andrew Tate are merely common or garden cunts. They hold no office. They have not been elected. They are not - and will not - be politicians unless elected.

As always the Jane door to checking my working is well open.

Re the riots in July - the average age of offender was 32. The majority were charged with violent disorder. Some teens were involved yes, but the violence wasn't limited to the young. A high proportion already had a criminal record.

If we are going to offer pardons or shorten sentences to those influenced by online content why would we limit that to rioters? Wouldn't that be open to offenders of any crimes?

@DuncinToffee yes she is, though she’s quite nervous still and we are taking it very slowly reintroducing her to the other cats. She has had to have all her vaccinations again as well, it will be a long time before she is allowed out again!

@prettybird we love her eyes too, she was the last one left in the litter, but she would have been our first choice 😻

Actually I was wrong about that. Well, incomplete. However a thread in AIBU reminded me of what I missed I should have said:

Shares in straight white Christian men are going through the roof.

https://bsky.app/profile/politics-co-uk.bsky.social/post/3lgb4hycfgc2m

Professor Jay speaking to MPs this morning: She expresses serious disdain for the last government's response, or lack thereof, to her recommendations

And is especially scathing of Suella Braverman's alleged lack of interest

Yep. I think some people are in the "big boy did it and ran away" territory.

"Professor Alexis Jay said she experienced complete silence from the Home Office after publishing 20 recommendations at the end of the seven-year inquiry, published in October 2022.
She told the House of Commons home affairs select committee: “It was awful, I cannot tell you how it felt to constantly read the response from the government.
“It was inconsequential, unsubstantial, committed to nothing.”
Jay said she recommended to No 10 that a small group meet regularly to scrutinise how and whether the recommendations were being implemented.
But she said: “I got no response, and it was suggested to me I should discuss it with the home secretary.
“I raised it with [Suella Braverman] and she was very vague and nothing more was heard until [James] Cleverly was appointed later that year.”

Bloody hell.
The Conservatives, particularly anyone from that Cabinet, need to sit back down and listen for once.

And all of them will receive a consequence for this. The consequence will be dependent on their actions.

But those rioting have no excuse. They made that choice. They had the option to plead insanity or ask for psychological assessment at the time of trial.

Same as every defendant does.

Engaging with misinformation is still a choice. And choices have consequences. Again, hordes of people online with educational and social profiles like those of the rioters did not go down those rabbit holes and did not riot. Russian interference is everywhere, but you can choose not to engage with it.

Sorry, if you are fucking stupid enough to throw rocks because of some words, then frankly I am happy that you are off the streets. And should stay off until you grow up.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

She's beautiful evenstar