Page 3 | Thread 16 Starmer - Mad World

DuncinToffee · 2025-01-21T08:47:34+00:00

Previous thread [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5251589-thread-15-starmer-nolite-te-bastardes-carborundorum?page=40&reply=141533067 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5251589-thread-15-starmer-nolite-te-bastardes-carborundorum?page=40&reply=141533067]]

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:15

The perpetrators themselves were victims of disinformation, arguably. And online violence and incitement.

The state needs to be able to intervene swiftly in the case of riots and needs to fast track.

It is not about being an apologist. If some dumb teen was incited online themselves, then how is it OK to lock them up for longer than normal?

Elodie09 · 21/01/2025 12:15

Thanks for the new thread, here is my tax .

PandoraSox · 21/01/2025 12:15

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BIWI · 21/01/2025 12:16

You're sounding more and more like Kemi a conspiracist, @Araminta1003 - what 'new' evidence? What 'loopholes'? Given that most of them were convicted on the basis of actual, visual evidence (some by their own stupid hands) I fail to see how any of them is likely to be pardoned. And given Keir Starmer's speech today, I doubt very much any of them will come up for especially early release.

BIossomtoes · 21/01/2025 12:16

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Completely agree. The previous thread became unusable over the weekend.

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:17

No - incorrect. I am not trying to derail at all. Nor am I either left or right. I am firmly in the Centre. So stop detracting.

This is a tragic case of a teen gone crazy and unsupported committing senseless murders, followed by another set of other teens going crazy and doing senseless rioting.

BIWI · 21/01/2025 12:18

@Araminta1003

The perpetrators themselves were victims of disinformation, arguably. And online violence and incitement.

Just because they were victims does not mean that they have the right to riot. Or try to murder people by setting fire to their accommodation

The state needs to be able to intervene swiftly in the case of riots and needs to fast track.

How much faster do you think they could have done that?! It was amazingly swift.

It is not about being an apologist. If some dumb teen was incited online themselves, then how is it OK to lock them up for longer than normal?

Who says they're being 'locked up for longer than normal'?

SerendipityJane · 21/01/2025 12:18

The perpetrators themselves were victims of disinformation, arguably. And online violence and incitement.

We all saw the same. Not all of us threw rocks.

Sorry, if you are fucking stupid enough to throw rocks because of some words, then frankly I am happy that you are off the streets. And should stay off until you grow up.

bombastix · 21/01/2025 12:19

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Oh. Well no bogarting the thread then

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:20

The state did the right thing to intervene quickly! And fast track at the time, because things were getting out of control!

I am not arguing against that.

Alexandra2001 · 21/01/2025 12:21

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 11:57

@pointythings - the law is the law and if there is new evidence that the judge has not considered originally, then there is a right of appeal, in some cases. So is there new evidence, will there be new evidence?

Err? These were cases held, in the vast majority of cases, in a magistrates court, they pleaded guilty, because there was video and online evidence... they did what they were accused of.

There is no grounds for appeal, let alone a pardon.

Atm we are still an Independent country, free from a lunatic President, if he hadn't won in November, he may well have ended up in jail.

I ve no idea what you re arguing for or against, you don't appear to have a clue how our justice system works.

But as my Gran once told me "the devil looks after his own..."

SerendipityJane · 21/01/2025 12:21

bombastix · 21/01/2025 12:19

Oh. Well no bogarting the thread then

Show quote history

Cool reference ! Easy Rider ?

Notonthestairs · 21/01/2025 12:21

A bit of positive news -

Global chief executives have ranked the UK the second most important market for international investment, beaten only by America.
The UK rose two places in the annual global CEO survey by PwC, the accounting and consulting firm. It is the highest position secured by Britain in the 28-year history of the survey.
Despite fears about the fiscal strength of the UK economy, 14 per cent of the global bosses surveyed by PwC said Britain would receive the greatest proportion of planned international capital expenditure. The United States was cited by 30 per cent of chief executives. In third place was Germany (12 per cent) followed by China (9 per cent) and India (7 per cent).

www.thetimes.com/business-money/economics/article/global-chief-executives-rank-uk-second-biggest-market-for-investment-ndtmqmp7t

cakeorwine · 21/01/2025 12:22

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:15

The perpetrators themselves were victims of disinformation, arguably. And online violence and incitement.

The state needs to be able to intervene swiftly in the case of riots and needs to fast track.

It is not about being an apologist. If some dumb teen was incited online themselves, then how is it OK to lock them up for longer than normal?

So you are saying that if someone is radicalised online due to misinformation and carries out violent acts, there should be no consequences?

PandoraSox · 21/01/2025 12:22

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:17

No - incorrect. I am not trying to derail at all. Nor am I either left or right. I am firmly in the Centre. So stop detracting.

This is a tragic case of a teen gone crazy and unsupported committing senseless murders, followed by another set of other teens going crazy and doing senseless rioting.

Bollocks. Most of the people banged up were not teenagers.

I am not engaging further.

SerendipityJane · 21/01/2025 12:23

Notonthestairs · 21/01/2025 12:21

A bit of positive news -

Global chief executives have ranked the UK the second most important market for international investment, beaten only by America.
The UK rose two places in the annual global CEO survey by PwC, the accounting and consulting firm. It is the highest position secured by Britain in the 28-year history of the survey.
Despite fears about the fiscal strength of the UK economy, 14 per cent of the global bosses surveyed by PwC said Britain would receive the greatest proportion of planned international capital expenditure. The United States was cited by 30 per cent of chief executives. In third place was Germany (12 per cent) followed by China (9 per cent) and India (7 per cent).

www.thetimes.com/business-money/economics/article/global-chief-executives-rank-uk-second-biggest-market-for-investment-ndtmqmp7t

I can't imagine any worse news today.

That means the UK is going to be subject to a blitz (a word I regretfully use with full knowledge of it's depths) of activism from the fascist elements that are strangling the US right now.

We are all going to be very much poorer for it.

MsJinks · 21/01/2025 12:24

I guess that some people think that now the killer is found to have committed a terror offence, he's a terrorist and 'we' weren't told that - so this actually makes it reasonable that people tried to burn hotels down and smash houses, and not an offence any more, because ummm - well I can't bend my brain that far, but maybe someone else can 🤔
I know that even as we are on here some terrorists will be being investigated and no one has told 'us' about them so perhaps any arson, burglary under these circumstances may be ok if the above stands firm 🙈😤
I do love the cat pictures best on this thread tbh but miss my late cats and don't have one to post right now sadly.

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:25

“So you are saying that if someone is radicalised online due to misinformation and carries out violent acts, there should be no consequences?”

No, that is not what I said.

There is a contradiction here became the person who should have been locked up and safeguarded was not, due to failures in the system, whereas other people were locked up, instead. And that is going to be exploited.

So whatever happens, politically, it needs to be handled carefully. You cannot just shoot the messenger.

bombastix · 21/01/2025 12:26

@SerendipityJane - maybe! I know it from Little Feat.

PickAChew · 21/01/2025 12:28

Chucking rocks was a choice. It was never a good choice, whatever the motivation and however the seeds of that motivation were sown. No amount of gullibility makes events like this OK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnl0lkrxgvxo.amp

Eight arrested and building burned during Sunderland unrest - BBC News

Three officers were injured after facing "serious and sustained levels of violence", Northumbria Police said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnl0lkrxgvxo.amp

cakeorwine · 21/01/2025 12:29

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:25

“So you are saying that if someone is radicalised online due to misinformation and carries out violent acts, there should be no consequences?”

No, that is not what I said.

There is a contradiction here became the person who should have been locked up and safeguarded was not, due to failures in the system, whereas other people were locked up, instead. And that is going to be exploited.

So whatever happens, politically, it needs to be handled carefully. You cannot just shoot the messenger.

Why were those people locked up?

pointythings · 21/01/2025 12:36

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:15

The perpetrators themselves were victims of disinformation, arguably. And online violence and incitement.

The state needs to be able to intervene swiftly in the case of riots and needs to fast track.

It is not about being an apologist. If some dumb teen was incited online themselves, then how is it OK to lock them up for longer than normal?

The rioters were not victims. The victims were the terrified asylum seekers, the emergency service workers who were attacked and hurt, the community who lost shops and a library. The rioters were criminals. They chose to riot, nobody made them. Don't be a racist rioting apologist it's a bad look.

Elodie09 · 21/01/2025 12:38

I think the whole of the UK were very grateful to our PM for his decisive handling of the dreadful behaviour during the riots.
The way in which it was dealt with sent out a clear, strong message.
Contrast that with Trump pardoning the rioters who attacked the White House.

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:43

Why can you not be both?

I think Sir Keir Starmer handled the riots really well and swiftly and it was absolutely the right thing to do at the time. I was scared myself.

However, I also believe we have failed to safeguard poorer communities and allowed people to become incited into right wing ideologies online and violence. And so I do believe some of them are victims too.

pointythings · 21/01/2025 12:44

Araminta1003 · 21/01/2025 12:25

“So you are saying that if someone is radicalised online due to misinformation and carries out violent acts, there should be no consequences?”

No, that is not what I said.

There is a contradiction here became the person who should have been locked up and safeguarded was not, due to failures in the system, whereas other people were locked up, instead. And that is going to be exploited.

So whatever happens, politically, it needs to be handled carefully. You cannot just shoot the messenger.

They weren't l9cked up instead. They were locked up.for their crimes. Stupid games, stupid prizes. Many had previous convictions for violence. They were not victims.