People who drop out of life

[Dappy777]

Over the last week or so I've had two separate conversations about people who've 'dropped out' of life – no job, no friends, no interest in anything.

Last night, for example, I went for a meal with a family friend who was telling us about his youngest brother. He is 30, lives with their mum, and has no life at all. He has no job, no relationship, no hobbies and very few friends. He spends all day in the flat eating takeaways and drinking, then sleeps most of the afternoon, wakes up around 8pm and sits up all night playing video games. He's never been abroad, and never even been to London (he lives in north Essex).

I had a similar chat on Christmas Day. A neighbour told me about his brother and how he's "given up on life" (as my neighbour put it). Doesn't work, date, socialize, pursue hobbies, nothing.

It isn't so much the not dating or not working that puzzles me. Plenty of people don't want a serious relationship, or kids, or even a job. I can even understand not socialising (I'm a bit of an introvert myself). What I find so puzzling is the lack of interest in life/being alive – you know, just going for a walk on a spring morning, or swimming in the sea, or looking at the stars. Is it depression do you think? I know of quite a few people like this – young people who play video games, smoke weed, and seem to have opted out of the world. I don't know if it's my imagination, but it seems to be more common. Is it just me?

The leaving it to the parents with no support feels a bit like kicking the can down the road. People with disabilities don't age out of them later in life when their parents die.

The govt don’t care so long as they don’t have to pay out to provide any housing or support for people who struggle to support themselves and find suitable work that they can manage.

I think that some people get sucked into gaming which is a serious addiction anf impacts mental health. They sound very stuck in a rut.

My 80 year old brother has two adult sons who have never left home. He built a flat above the garage for one who lives rent free and has never worked, (38) The other one (42) works but only pays £80 per month rent, which includes washing, cooking and bills. He's a plumber and earns a lot of money. They both know they will inherit money and a property each when my brother dies. I would do the same in their position.

Moving out of the family home is about finding your identity and building character. If your parents allow it and make you feel safe from the world then you tend to avoid life and all its problems.

It's a shame for everyone but maybe especially so for those that could have got on a path to at least some sort of independence with the right support early on.

The historical figure of the religious hermit living alone in physical isolation is evidence to the contrary.
They lived usually (I think) through a combination of self-sufficiency and charity.
It was believed that their contribution was to pray for the world.
Depending on whether you believe in the efficacy of prayer, you could say that they made no contribution to society functioning, but it was not a problem.

Also historically most families were more multi generational and interdependent. For example if you had someone that could only plough and harvest where and when you told him that wouldn't have been much of a problem for a farming family. You'd just give him instructions and the work would still get done.

It is up to parents to support their children so they can live independently. If they can't, they should be engaging with services to help a transition to supported living. If they do not meet the criteria for supported living, its usually because they can live independently. e

So a parent could be helping them into a bedsit or small flat, to claim esa if they can not work, to do very basic cooking, cleaning and taking care of themselves. That is what parents of children with other disabilities do.

I was in nursing for 30 years, so I think I probably do. People don't understand ND though.

Nothing will change until your parents switch off the WiFi and stop paying for her. Their choice.

I guess I wonder what's changed. Did parents used to be better at this? Were the services more available?

That's my take on it. I hate the phrase tough love but all of us have to get comfortable with feeling uncomfortable in order to progress towards a life that is fulfilling. It's easy to assume NT people don't have to do this. They do. They may have an easier time focusing or building habits or overcoming procrastination and social anxiety or stilling the critical voices in their heads etc but they still have to do it and so do we. And I strongly believe it is our job as parents, whether we are NT or ND, and whichever our adult children are, to nudge them and set targets for them.

It's funny - my parents were pretty casual to the point of neglect. But twice my dad intervened in my life when he saw it was going badly off course, and because he almost never paid attention to how I was, I felt shocked and did what he said and on both occasions it was life-transforming. So I do think we need to budge the hikikomori adult children out of their cocoons and into the world again, in ways that are rewarding and satisfying to them, once they are over the initial shock.

What is the criteria for supported living out of interest? Because if it was straightforward none of these adults would be dependent on their parents for a roof over their head.

From my Google searches it appears that only people who need 'ongoing and substantial support' qualify. People who can wash, dress themselves, hold a conversation and obtain their own groceries aren't going to qualify. People with adhd aren't going to qualify. People like my young adult children aren't ever going to qualify even though they still need support. People don't understand what ND is or how it affects and impairs people.

We had an older neighbour who lived alone in a house that was next to some woodland that dh owns. She wasn't elderly, just older middle aged. Clearly autistic. Her dh had died years previously and she lived a very eccentric and isolated life. She then began to struggle as she got older and eventually became unwell. She was a very private lady, but it was clear to see she was struggling. Her neighbour tried to help her. Our friend tried to help her, but she wasn't the type of person to go into residential care. She was eventually found dead, in bed, with her dog next to her (also dead). Her house had no electricity or heating, only a stove. It was an absolute tip and very dirty and cluttered. The life she must have been living. Heartbreaking, but none of us realised. Her autism and extreme isolation mindset meant that she could never have accepted help even if it had been available. She was very intelligent and fiercely independent and had been sort of looking after herself for years. ND makes things very complicated and only the most dependent cases qualify for help.

Sqirrelnutcartel that is just so sad especially with the poor dog 😞

@squirrelnutcartel My elderly Dad encountered that type of situation last year. He was concerned about another older man who was sleeping in the church porch, Dad would also see him around town and he sometimes joined in the church services.

Dad asked someone at the church whether he could do anything to help and was told that church members had already tried to help, had got SS involved and this man had been offered a flat an over-60’s community, but he refused it. He was willing to sleep in the porch, accept bedding and some food. There’s obviously a backstory, but that’s all that the church community can do for him. 🙁

@kerstina it was so sad and I was wracked with guilt that I hadn't offered help.

That poor man living in the church porch 😢

Reading this thread has really highlighted how many people fall between the cracks. There must be a lot like this - adults who’ve never found their place in the world, who have no partner or friends, and who are dependent on an ageing parent. Unless they have some kind of label, there’s not going to be any support or guidance. It isn’t only that they depend on the parents for money and food and a place to live. Often, their parents are their only source of love and companionship as well.

I know a man in his late 40s who lives with his 78-year-old mother. He doesn’t work, and depends on her for a place to live. But she’s also his only friend. What the hell will happen when she dies? Not only will he lose his home (which he’ll have to split with his sister), but he’ll lose his main support. What happens to people like him? They probably don’t show up in any statistics. We (presumably) know how many people with clinical depression, OCD, schizophrenia, heroin addiction, etc, end up homeless or suicidal because they’ve been labelled and brought into the system. But people like him are invisible. It would be interesting to know how many suicides, or people sleeping rough, were living with an ageing parents who suddenly died.

Yes parents used to be better at this. There is a woman in our street with Downs Syndrome. She can manage day to day living fine. But her family still check in on her and help with things. This is what families need to do with someone with ND who struggles.
State funded social care is to meet basic needs of food, personal washing, getting you out of bed. And you often have to pay something towards this. Only the poorest get this free, and that is all they will get plus PIP.
Families and paid care fill the gap. So families could help someone with ND set up a cleaner paid by PIP so their home stays reasonable. And be there to help with paperwork and similar if needed.
Lots of people struggle without someone checking in with them and helping with one off things as needed.

@Dappy777 I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the man sleeping in the church porch has outlived his relatives and couldn’t cope on his own. He’s definitely 70-plus and probably scared of “the authorities” hence he won’t accept accommodation. Who knows what people have been through in their lives.

Sounds like the man who used to walk the streets where I worked.
There have always been people who can not cope with life for a variety of reasons. They used to be institutionalised against their will, which is not better

For me the thread has highlighted how judgemental people are if you don’t tick the right boxes. You must have a job, a partner, children, friends and hobbies. You must leave the house. Bonus points for also giving time to charity.

But there are loopholes - if you are pursuing art, music or books you get to leave other boxes unticked and maintain some respect.

If you are earning enough money to pay for yourself you can leave all the other unboxes unticked but people will still feel sad for you, even if you’re happy.

@BruFord the man I knew was probably only in his forties, he may even have been younger

@OriginalUsername2 "If you are earning enough money to pay for yourself you can leave all the other unboxes unticked but people will still feel sad for you, even if you’re happy." What harm is done by people feeling sad thinking about a person who has no friends, partner hobbies etc. if that person is happy? That person doesn't care.