If you want your kids to feel comfortable in middle & upper class environments now & when older what would you do to help them?

[Treetops11]

My parents instilled an inferiority complex in me when I was young. We lived in an undesirable estate & they always spoke about people getting ideas above their station , referred to people as "the lawyers son", "doctors daughter " etc... opportunities were never for people like us.

I now have my own kids 13, 11 & 8 , I never want them feeling lesser. We are comfortable but I always feel embarrassed in
middle class company as if I'm an imposter.

How can I equip my kids to fit in anywhere with all walks of life? It truely is an amazing skill to have.

Well there’s an awful lot of middle class teens and young people, particularly in urban areas, desperate to get themselves a bit of working class street cred. Funny they don’t keep it up when they want career advancement and house deposits gifted.

But yes, I think we agree. My between the lines point is that OPs kids should a) be taught that they are as good as anyone, and b) be encouraged to embrace being working class.

I don’t happen to think that galleries and hockey clubs are inherently middle class, and X Box and football and working class. But I do think it’s daft to force activities and interests perceived as middle class on people to make them ‘fit in’. And I say this as someone working class by background who is a regular at book groups, high-brow theatre, and tennis club!

Get your point but as OP's kids are aged 8, 11 and 13 it's a bit late to change their names from Chardonnay, Khaleesi and Gavin to Olivia Charlotte and Harry now!

Going slightly against the grain here, but football is a great leveller. I grew up thinking football was only for the ignorant and yobs and my parents are almost intentional in their disdain for it. Life has taught me that the vast majority of people are passionate about football, and this is particularly the case in male dominated environments. At work, it's the topic of conversation I can have with the chair of the board to peers to those in more manual roles. A basic knowledge of whether teams are having a good or bad season, a surprising result or a change of manager at least allows you to ask a question.
Otherwise, I would say being aware of other people's circumstances. Don't drone on about how disappointed you were by the service at your 5* hotel and how you would never holiday there again but will be "forced" to go somewhere else to people who haven't been able to afford a holiday for years. You can, though, talk about holidays and ask them about holiday experiences. I tend to upend the conversation and ask if they have had any holiday disasters or something like that - most people have had an experience of getting completely lost or disappointing accommodation or their children being a complete nightmare for some reason.

I agree. So is cricket!

@DownThePubWithStevieNicks "Bet there’s never been a middle class parent worrying about how to make sure their kids fit in with and are respected by working class people."

I did. Because I wanted them as far as possible to fit in everywhere.

Ha very true! More a general contribution to the conversation 😂

I'd rather work on changing people's attitudes than my DC feel they have to act a certain way around people of a different class! I don't think stuff like that should be pandered to.

Listen to radio 4,

take pride in your appearance. - this is just a general one as the working classes can be more appearance led

High expectations and support to meet them. Different groups of friends from school and clubs, experiences - theatre, music, travel, dining out (doesn’t have to be Michelin starred but knowing how to eat out in company is a good thing).

Good for you for thinking about this. “Be yourself” is all very well but having knowledge and experiences which underpin your confidence in professional and social situations is valuable in life.

Given their current ages, Aquila magazine, or similar - National Geographic junior etc. Look for back copies of Aquila on eBay as there was a golden period several years ago and the content doesn’t really date too much.

Learn an instrument, and join the orchestra (most local authorities will fund the provision so it is not free but is heavily subsidised). This is a social world that tilts UK traditional middle/educated class and educated/aspirational families from other ethnic backgrounds too. Even if you children don’t continue to play long term, they will be exposed to the “world” of music and kids outside their school.

A Saturday broadsheet in print. Subscription to The Economist when they are around year 10. What they read matters. Broadsheets aren’t what they used to be.

Many people who have been brought up in middle class environments will have had Radio 4 constantly on in the background of their lives… it gives a different sort of lifetime cultural capital to going to museums and galleries etc. I had to endure the Today programme every weekday morning for my entire life until I left home. It was boring and I didn’t like it but it built an awareness of the world, and what educated and/or powerful people think and how they communicate and discuss things, that you do not get from reading news online. Similarly desert island discs. I think radio like this can be superior to TV news, although that can be good too at times. Also Radio 4 podcasts like In Our Time and “Add to playlist” (which is a joy!).
Radio 3; even if they don’t always understand (or care!) what the presenters are talking about or like the music it is immersion in a (privileged) world beyond their own. Stick it on in the car. People on Radio 3 are so charming and polite to each other. I find it a balm, but cheerfully admit I will switch over to pop channels when the music is “hard-going non-melodic unharmonious” stuff or the more dramatic end of opera! Exploring media beyond pop culture is important. Middle class kids endure lots of stuff that is “character building” - they don’t enjoy all of it, lol.

I strongly agree that sports can also be an effective way to cross class barriers.

Getting used to being outside your comfort zone and doing things which are not your usual preference might be initially unpalatable but then often you will “get” it or build familiarity or start to enjoy it, and suddenly something new and worthwhile opens up. This builds resilience and perspective. These are the sorts of things that fee-paying schools instil and that’s why kids coming out of them often have that “money can’t buy” inner confidence (but obviously money has bought it!). They have the confidence to be interested rather than intimidated when facing unfamiliar situations or topics.

Finally, you can lead by example and this is really powerful. By trying something new, by being open minded and curious - which even by your OP you are showing that you are. 😊

Go to an evening class/club, a book group, take up online learning, dip your toe in language learning on Duolingo… I know time is challenging with kids so some of this might be on the to do list for a while but it’s worth thinking about how to squeeze a bit of your own self actualisation in…

Teach them the saying my Nanna taught me when i was young.

"Your silks and satins
suit you fine
But your arsehole smells
the same as mine"

There's plenty of Hugo's and oli's that pretend to be gang members to be 'cool'

Teach them to use cutlery, table manners and other social conventions.

Why does everyone mention museums and galleries in these conversations? I'm fairly middle class and I've occasionally been part of conversations (never initiated by me!) when someone will make a comment about another person not fitting in. It's never been "oh she didn't seem very interested in that painting"...

When I was 10 my (suddenly) nouveau riche parents took me out of a state primary and sent me to private school. Overnight, my friends were now the children of doctors, barristers, senior clergy etc. It was a crash course in trying to assimilate into the world of the true middle classes. Not easy considering my father grew up in a council house!

To this day I am perfectly aware that I'm not truly middle class, even though I'm 99% adapted by now, though I do have a private smile at my very occasional lapses.

I honestly think you have to be born into the middle classes to be so at ease that you would never think to even question it. For example, our DDs only know how to be middle class.

It's awful isn't it. I just don't have the confidence & I know it was rooted in my childhood that there are superior people. My parents had a chip on their shoulders & I inherited a deep inferiority complex...

But fight it! I got brought up the same way, but I don't need to accept that as some kind of unchanging facet of my psyche. It wasn't working for me so I recognised that this was an issue with my parents, their backgrounds (very deprived and dysfunctional) and the way they were brought up. I didn't want to let that limiting script restrict my own life, or to pass it on to my child

For example, our DDs only know how to be middle class.
What does that actually mean, practically speaking? It’s a very strange statement.

Exactly. Feelings of inferiority are not limited to working class kids. I come from a middle class background (parents were highly educated and wealthy, we lived in a posh area etc.) but there was zero cultural and social capital due to problems in the family. It was a joyless, impoverished upbringing even though we had money, a good education etc.

Thankfully I left home at 19 and set out on building cultural and social capital by myself, but I would say it took a good 10 years to gain the self confidence and feeling comfortable in one's skin that culturally middle class kids are instilled with from a young age. I'm now comfortable anywhere and with any company but it took a lot of conscious effort on my part to get there.

How I did it? Lots and lots of reading, travel, moving to London, losing my northern accent, entering a very MC profession, getting into running/exercise, ski trips, gap year, art galleries, theatre, dating UMC men, listening to Radio 4 (no really), going to talks and debates, watching documentaries.

Just because your parents didn't teach you self confidence it doesn't mean it's game over.

I'd echo the cultural capital posts. But add to it that when you enter a museum or art gallery to need to think about the fact that it's yours, mine, and everyone's. tell your kids this.

My DF and Dm found it impossible to be confident in a restaurant, they just didn't know what the done thing was...

The fact you're introducing your DC to the concept of class, and that they need techniques to manage being in "middle or upper class environments" (whatever that means", is doing them a big disservice.

Just raise them to respect people and to have their own sense of selfworth and they won't be bothered to be something they're not or think those other people are special and that they need to make adaptations to their own personage to appease others.

youll set them up with an inferiority complex if you micromanage their attitudes and existence to that degree.

Children will copy you. If you treat the postman, shop assistants, the cleaners, the bin men, the bus driver etc with the same friendliness, confidence and respect you would give to your GP, solicitor etc they will too.

If you treat your children with respect ie discuss the political situation with them, include them in discussion round the dinner table, ask them their opinions about holidays, lessons, hobbies etc they will gain in self belief and self confidence. ( Eating together is the activity which is most closely related to academic achievement btw.)

Lots of good ideas above. Ask them to perform, sing, recite a poem, give a talk at your next family meet up. ( Drama lessons good idea.) Praise, praise, praise.

When they ask for volunteers to show visitors round at school, go for interviews, need to ask questions in meetings etc they will have the experience and confidence to do so.

I would have said it was self-evident -- that poster's children have been brought up MC and don't know any other way of being, presumably?

In the perfect world, sure, that would work. But honestly, I think you're being very naive. Of course it shouldn't be pandered to. But when I worked in an investment bank, the reality is that if I couldn't hold a conversation with the people in charge, if I couldn't turn up dressed appropriately for an interview or an awards event, if I didn't know how to act in ridiculously overpriced, overhyped restaurants.... I would have struggled.

I also have mixed feelings when I think about changing society so this stuff doesn't matter vs my instinctive irritation when people are rude. As I said before, I don't particularly care about the exact detais of how someone eats or whatever. But I do care if they're eating in a way that puts me off my food - loud, open mouthed eating, talking with their mouth full, waving their utensils around. Becuas either makes my eating experience less pleasant.

Someone very posh once told me that she was taught that the epitome of good manners is to behave in a way that does not make other people uncomfortable which may well mean adapting your behaviours in different circumstances.

Oh and also, being polite and friendly to waiters as well as doctors; and by the same token, equally as willing to disagree or ask forbetter. If you'd send a meal back, you can also know that you can disagree with authority figures. I think it's about ultimately thinking that they 'work for you'.

I've known older WC people to be very deferential to doctors, teachers, politicians. If you keep in mind they are fallible too, and work for you if they are doing their job well, I think that gets you places. If you're talented enough to do this while smiling then you win! I can't get to that level, but I aspire to it :-)